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Salon has a wonderful piece up called "I lost my dad to Fox News: How a generation was captured by thrashing hysteria," and it's just about the saddest thing you'll read today.

My mother has to come to family dinners with a written list of topics that can't be discussed, but it really doesn't matter what's on it because everything comes back to the cult mentality instilled by Fox News. Let's consider this article and comments through that mentality below the twisted orange emotion of the children of Fox News viewer.

Cult mentality:

Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.”
Father Lost to Fox:
He defended with stridency his choices, citing his favorites, like Stuart Varney, “The Five” and the great Charles Krauthammer.

Cult mentality:

“Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.”

Father Lost to Fox:

When I finally pulled the handle for Obama in 2012, my father could not believe how far I’d fallen.
Cult mentality:
Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”
Father Lost to Fox, from PA-C:
My grandparents were pacifist Mennonites. Until they started watching FoxNews.

I was unaware of the change until I saw an 8x10 picture of George and Laura hung prominently in their kitchen.
"Grandma," I said. "Why do you have this?" knowing full well they had to have donated to the campaign to get it.
"I just think he is a good, godly man."
"He started two wars."
"I know, I know..."

Cult mentality:
"The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.
Father Lost to Fox:
Let’s call it the Fox News effect. Take sweet, kindly senior citizens and feed them a steady stream of demagoguery and repetition, all wrapped in the laughable slogan of “fair and balanced.” Even watching the commercials on Fox, one is treated to sales pitches for gold and emergency food rations, the product cornerstones of the paranoid.
Cult Mentality:
The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality."
Father Lost to Fox, from tigercrane:
This happened to my stepfather, too. He was never a nice man, but as he got older he became more and more hateful. Milton Friedman was a gateway drug to him in the 1980s; by the end of the 1990s he only watched Fox News and listened to Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy. He stopped going to movies because they were made by liberals. He and my mother had planned a tour of Europe for several years, but he backed out because he didn't want to go among European liberals. He had grown up in a moderately conservative church, but he started espousing far-right religious views that hadn't been a part of his upbringing. He made himself into a virtual prisoner in his own home, with Fox News blaring from the television all day. It was disturbing to see, and rather sad how he cut himself off from life like that.
Cult Mentality:
"The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock."
Father Lost to Fox:
“Global warming is your religion,” he says. Because I’m an atheist, calling me religious is the worst insult he can summon, so he uses it often.

My father sincerely believes that science is a political plot, Christians are America’s most persecuted minority and Barack Obama is a full-blown communist. He supports the use of force without question, as long as it’s aimed at foreigners. He thinks liberals are all stupid, ignorant fucks who hate America.

Cult Mentality:
"The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition.
Father Lost to Fox, from Jules McH:
His previously utopian outlook on life is being supplanted by a dark nihilistic vision, fed by far right fairy stories.

Cult Mentality:

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters."
Father Lost to Fox, from Milestone0425:
I lost my dad the same way...[W]hat's been most upsetting is seeing my father, a former professor and bio-medical researcher, reject clear and overwhelming scientific evidence for things such as climate change and evolution because of all the negative reenforcement of people like Rush and Sean Hannity. He has come to trust pundits more than the scientific community for which he was a part of for 40 years.
Cult mentality:
"Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."
Father Lost to Fox:
I don’t recall my father being so hostile when I was growing up. He was conservative, to be sure, but conventionally and thoughtfully so. He is a kind and generous man and a good father, but over the past five or 10 years, he’s become so conservative that I can’t even find a label for it.
When can we begin the deprogramming?

Originally posted to snow1985man on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 09:06 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos Classics.

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  •  The same thing happened to my mother. (179+ / 0-)
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    By the time she died, she was completely under the power of Rush/Fox.  We did not live close, and I refused to engage on the Fox propaganda when we talked on the phone.

    I actually wrote her a letter to explain why I voted for President Obama she she could not discuss him rationally.  We got to a bit of a truce, but she was transformed from a normal, outgoing, friendly woman to a paranoid shadow of her former self.  It was heartbreaking; I consider it a form of elder abuse.

    “The future depends entirely on what each of us does every day.” Gloria Steinem

    by ahumbleopinion on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 09:21:15 PM PST

  •  It sounds to me like your father has already (12+ / 0-)

    been trying to deprogram. It's clear that he has no idea what has "possessed" you. It's weird, though, that he's still searching Fox for answers.

    There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

    by oldpotsmuggler on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 09:22:26 PM PST

  •  Also known as the "Fox Geezer Syndrome" (65+ / 0-)

    in a Jan 2011 article:

    I started to wonder how common this Fox Geezer Syndrome was. I began to poll conservative friends of my generation who had right-wing parents. At least eight different people – not an Obama voter among them, and one of them actually a George W. Bush political appointee in Washington – told me that yes, they had observed a correlation between the fevered emotionalism of their elderly parents’ politics, and increased exposure to Fox News....
    http://www.frumforum.com/...

    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. -- Judge Learned Hand, May 21, 1944

    by ybruti on Thu Feb 27, 2014 at 09:48:32 PM PST

  •  My neighbor (a WWII vet) told me... (4+ / 0-)

    FOX did not change him or others.  They just gave them a voice that they didn't have before.

    I would wager that most people do not change their core beliefs due to a TV program.  Especially one as open as FOX.

    Cult mentality.... you mention that several times.  I think if you stand back and look at it you will see that it applies to Obama as well.  Some people follow him no matter what.  Same happened with Reagan in the 80's.  

    ""The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise."

    Look VERY closely at what Hillary is doing now...

    •  Sorry, brother, (57+ / 0-)

      but you are totally, unfortunately wrong.  Your WWII vet neighbor may have been taught to be a bigoted sociopath, having been trained to be a bigot by his parents and then trained to be a sociopath by the Armed Forces branch he was indoctrinated by, but no matter how bad he was at first, Fox News made him worse.

      Did you know that subliminal suggestion in television is not illegal?  Or in movies?  Or in radio, for that matter?  It comes up occasionally in Congress, but the bills to make it illegal to covertly manipulate your mind are always tabled, or moved into committee for further research, and are never heard of again.

      The reason for this is that our politicians are bribed to turn a blind eye to the fact that subliminal suggestion works, by the people making money off the process.  While subliminal suggestion works in differing degrees on different people, the more you are exposed, the more it digs into your mind.  And the people running Fox have experts helping them take over gullible minds, or frightened minds, or uneducated minds.  It's harder to lie to an intelligent person, and most intelligent people watch as little Fox programming as they can, probably because something deep inside them is screaming 'Danger, Will Robinson, danger!' at the top of its immaterial lungs whenever they're exposed to that virulent subliminal manipulation.

      Fox News takes uncertain people and turns them into frightened people.  Then it turns them into angry frightened people.  Then it turns them into angry, frightened people who will not listen to the truth, even if you show them proof.  And then it preys upon their poor, twisted minds, and it's all legal, even if morally bankrupt.

      It is a cult mentality, or at least a cult sensitization and brainwashing process.  And it works, all too well.

      And if you watch enough of it, you'll probably find it happening to you. . .

      Henry D. Rinehart

      •  I get your point (5+ / 0-)

        But calling a soldier, especially a draftee who was fighting a regime that was evil to the core, a "trained sociopath" is neither accurate nor particularly nice.  World War II was not Vietnam.

        This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

        by Ellid on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:35:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why are WWII veteran considered heroes to (10+ / 0-)

          you and Vietnam veterans less than heroes?

          •  Uh, I didn't say that, nor did I imply that (5+ / 0-)

            Nor do I think it.  I knew plenty of WWII vets, a couple of 'Nam vets, and a good friend of mine is a captain in the Air Force.  ALL soldiers have their wounds, especially if they've been in combat, but over the last forty years the popular image of the 'Nam vet in particular has become associated with atrocities, mental illness, drugs, and unstable behavior in a way that WWII vets have not.  This may be because of pop culture, this may be because of the Vietnam War itself - I don't know, and I'm sorry that I didn't express myself clearly.  But either way, characterizing soldiers as sociopaths is painting with a very, very broad brush.

            This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

            by Ellid on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:01:05 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  In WWII, troops more likely a unit... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lyta

              and might have known each other from home.  In Vietnam, you were dropped into an ongoing unit for one year.  No one to talk to when you got home.  More daily stress too, because they couldn't be sure who among the locals could be trusted.  In WWII, much fighting was in occupied territory.

        •  Why do some former military get PTSD? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GAS

          They tried to resist the training... or to offset it, still maintaining their humanity, and could not cope.

          WWII forced people to kill objects. The training required people to consider the enemy as objects. That does not go well with other social training. Vietnam was not different, but rather a more refined program of training. Also, we fought Europeans in WW2 European "theatre". We fought a very different enemy with the well-trained Japanese in the Pacific. Vietnam was only an extension of the training used for the Pacific forces.

          Hence, there's a conflict if you try to keep your sanity. Conflict brings mental illness. And you either work out of it slightly damaged but normal, or you are anywhere from a slight sociopath to a full raging psychopath.

          You're wrong.

          Ugh. --UB.

          Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

          by unclebucky on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:29:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is simply not true (0+ / 0-)

            of the training that I experienced 40-odd years ago.  I was drafted during my first year in grad school, just before the lottery went into effect.  Basic training at Ft. Campbell in the summer of 1970 was a joke, far easier than I’d feared and quite inadequate to its intended purpose; had I actually ended up in Vietnam, I’d have been woefully unprepared.  (Fortunately, I ended up at Ft. Carson as what amounts to secretary-receptionist for an O6 and his XO.)

        •  Trained Sociopath (5+ / 0-)

          is not a particularly nice thing to call someone, I agree.  Unfortunately, it is entirely accurate.

          All military training is intended to create sociopaths who will kill on order.  That there are massacres perpetrated by our military and others' serves to prove that some people are more susceptible to this, and that the training works all too well with some people.

          If you do not believe that military training, especially for their combat forces, is intended to create trained sociopaths, I have a bridge in New York to lease to you, for a reasonable amount per month, guaranteed, my han' ta Gahd on it.

          Elid, the story said this individual stated that fox news gave him and others like him a voice.  As the voice of fox news is hatred, bigotry, malice and lies, and he identified with this, reveled in it, how would you categorize him, knowing that he was a war veteran?

          Sometimes the truth isn't 'nice', but it's still the truth.

          Henry D. Rinehart

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:42:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's not just subliminal messages that are legal, (12+ / 0-)

        so are outright intentional lies.

        See The Corporation for background and details.

        "All war is stupid" - JFK

        by jorogo on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:00:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know, jorogo, (4+ / 0-)

          But my comment was already too long, and subliminal manipulation is a sore point to me.  I presumed that everyone knows fox lies, but that not everyone might understand that subliminal pressure is even worse, as it's hard to fight when you don't even know you're in danger, or actively embattled.

          Thank you for your interest, and thank you for your addition to my comments.  

          Keep shaking their cages, someday you might actually get them to open their eyes and try to see what you're making all the fuss about.

          And keep on spreading that quote, too.

          Henry D. Rinehart

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:17:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I have to take issue with that whole (8+ / 0-)

        "trained sociopath" thing.  My Dad was a WWII vet, it left some scars, and he was the kindest most generous loving (liberal) person I knew.  I miss his calm guiding way, and will forever.

        The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

        by AnnieR on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:11:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your dad (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright

          Annie, my comment was about a specific individual who stated fox news gave him a voice.  As the voice of fox news is hatred, bigotry, malice and lies, I projected from there.

          If you can find anywhere in my message where I mentioned your father either directly or implicitly, I will freely apologize.  If you lost your father, loving individual though he was, to fox news, I feel deep sorrow for you.

          But make no mistake, Annie, the INTENT of all military training is to produce sociopaths who will follow orders to kill people they do not know, and who may be shooting at them simply because that soldier is an invader in their country.  That your father was generous and loving after his tour may simply mean that they failed in his case, and as you state he was liberal then they probably did fail in his case.  

          I guarantee, however, that they tried.  And the other possibility is that they succeeded all too well, he was horrified at what he did at their behest, and spent the rest of his life expiating his 'sins'.

          Whatever the truth, I am deeply sorry for your loss, he sounds like a good man.  Live your life as his legacy if you feel called to do so, fight for America and our freedom in the same spirit that he did, and nothing he did will have been done in vain.

          Regards,

          Henry D. Rinehart

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:32:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  "When can we begin the deprogramming?" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GAS

        Resistance is futile! Assimilation almost complete. Resistance is FUTILE!
        Yes, brainwashing! Yes, Cult mentality!
        Yes, subliminal manipulation!
        Thanks for the diary!
        Peace and Blessings!

        For those abused, war torn and blood-soaked regions of the world: due to our apathy, our need for cheap shit, and our wars on terror and drugs, we apologize for the inconvenience.

        by Penny GC on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 11:39:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The deprogramming begins now! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          thanatokephaloides

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:46:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I am your deprogrammer! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          thanatokephaloides

          Resistance is never futile, you can always serve as a bad example!  Or an example of what not to do next time!  But victory is better!

          Brainwashing leaves a yucky film all over your neurons!  Get a rinse!

          Cult mentality is fine for sheep, or lemmings.  I'm not a sheep.  Don't you be a sheep either!  Or a lemming!

          Yes, subliminal manipulation MUST BE BANNED.

          I liked the diary too.  Even though his conclusions were questionable.

          Peace?  We're human, probably wouldn't recognize peace if it jammed a shillelagh up our collective asses.  Sideways.

          Blessed be, Sister.  Keep shaking their cages, maybe someday you can get them to open their eyes and actually make an attempt to see why you're making all the fuss.

          Henry D. Rinehart

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:56:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  legality of subliminal messages (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eyesbright, thanatokephaloides

        According to at least one source (probably faculty at U Michigan, based on the URL), use of subliminal messages in radio and television should result in loss of license, but it is difficult to prove.

        The FCC's viewpoint on "subliminal techniques" in radio and TV

        Currently, not much is being done to curb the use of subliminal messages in advertising and daily use. In Australia and Britain, the use of subliminal advertising has been banned with severe consequences for those who disobey the strict laws.

        The following is from the Federal Communications Commission's Manual for Broadcasters:

        We sometimes receive complaints regarding the alleged use of subliminal techniques in radio and TV programming. Subliminal programming is designed to be perceived on a subconscious level only. Regardless of whether it is effective, the use of subliminal perception is inconsistent with a station's obligation to serve the public interest because the broadcast is intended to be deceptive. (this is from the FCC manual for broadcasters)

        The FCC will now revoke a company's broadcast license if the use of subliminal messages is proven. Since most subliminal messages, however, are indiscernible on the conscious level  ... it takes a difficult and costly effort to find them in the first place.

        -- Subliminal techniques: Legal Issues

        Everyone born after Star Wars came out is basically a Democrat. -- Save The Clock Tower

        by jotter on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:29:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, that's what they say. . . (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eyesbright, thanatokephaloides

          But they never do it.   There are many known methods of subliminal manipulation, from images posted in ice cubes in glasses in an ad to messages scrolled across a screen behind a newscaster slow enough for your brain to register, but faster than most people can consciously follow.

          Yet even though the FCC states they will not allow this, Fox News is still on the air, doing things like calling a Democratic candidate for senate a rat in a subliminal flash, with impunity.

          I stand by my statement, and agree with one of the other replies that it's not just that subliminal manipulation is legal--in the sense that if you're not punished for doing it, it's not illegal, no matter what the law says--but that they can tell outright, blatant lies and get away with it.  Which also should be illegal, and used to be, until the FCC was hobbled in that as well.

          As for being difficult to prove, any dvr can send a news program or ad to your computer, and the digital copy can be scanned in microsecond increments by a good software program.  Hell, you can make your own, and if your dvr could upload, you'd could be a terror--except that, as in most other cases, what corporations can do with impunity you cannot.  You'd have federal agents at your door within days if you posted an ad that you'd stripped the official sm from, then added your own.  And you'd go to jail, guaranteed, and Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch would laugh themselves sore at you.

          Thanks for the info, though, and keep doing your best to keep 'em honest.  If you ever see any more of my posts that you think are incorrect, please provide the corrections, as you did with this one.

          Henry D. Rinehart

          “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

          by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:12:39 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Somewhere on U-Tube (0+ / 0-)

        there are examples of Fox News using subliminal suggestions.
        They actually had quick flashes of the image of Bush.
        I wonder what they are using for Obama?

    •  Here's why I think you may be wrong (53+ / 0-)

      Fox News helps build an identity for people. It does "give them a voice", but it also creates an incentive for group identity, and in so doing, introduces a range of ideological beliefs that they may not have held before. People who watch Fox News feel that they are mainstream, that they are listing to the only fair and balanced news, and that other sources of information are suspect. Then they start to absorb everything else that comes along with that.

      Example:  My mom was always a bigot, an anti-communist, a far-right nut. But she at one point was also an atheist and an environmentalist. Fox News has convinced her, an Ayn Rand style atheist, that religion is under assault in America. Fox News has convinced a woman who once supported the expansion of the national parks and who vigorously supported the clean air act, that environmentalists are the enemy and that the federal government should look to privatizing federal lands and handing them over for resource extraction in order to pay down the national debt.  

      Fox News sells a whole package - built around identity, built around exclusivity, and ultimately built around fear that the definition of America and Americans, as cultivated by Fox News, is under assault. If you watch too much Fox News, you no longer pick and choose between which conservative myths you believe. You start to believe all of them. Part of being a Republican in America today involves linking "truths" to an identity - which is why people who used to be able to rub together a few brain cells think that Benghazi was the worst foreign disaster of this century.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:46:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are dead wrong. (33+ / 0-)

      Every liberal, progressive, Democrat I know will listen to facts, discuss issues with openness and change their mind when proven wrong.  Every damn one.  Look at blogs and see the difference in discussions. The vile comments come 99% from righties.  There are very few comments on right wing blogs that discuss anything reasonably.  It is all hate, angst and insults.  I attempt frequently to discuss matters with righties.  They will not acknowledge facts with excuses about where the facts come from, etc.  In the next sentence they will throw up a number that comes from the same source they just discounted!  They are disingenuous and frankly, crazy.

      Everyone! Arms akimbo! 68351

      by tobendaro on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:48:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My mother lives in an assisted living home.... (9+ / 0-)

        and all the public TVs are turned to Fox.  She is another victim of the Fox fear exploitation.  Seniors are already afraid of their bodies, which are failing, and of muggers and terrorists.  Fox plays on their generalized fears.

        What I don't know is if the next generation - the Boomers - will also succumb to Fox.

      •  that other blog (0+ / 0-)

        ! I, too, tried to converse and project ideas contradicting some of their ravings and ranting. It was hopeless, totally impossible to express anything that anyone of them did not agree with. I was called many names; communist and socialist were the nicest. I was told I could not spell (I use a spell check like everyone), and she also told me that I used terrible grammar. I think that all the insults, personal and otherwise, were due to the fact that these individuals did not have a clue how to discuss anything. They have a mind set, or hate set in their cases and that was it. I just unsubscribed. Stupidity cannot be cured, had been my feeling. But I now see the deeper aspect to this mania. These are people who are exploited with half-trues and lies and fear and they are brainwashed and it definitely is serious. I wonder just how many of them will end up loosing their wits and do something tragic.
        After my first post, and I did not insult any one, I was viciously attacked verbally to the point I just wrote back and told the guy that I was glad I did not live near him as I would fear for my life, because of my opinion. I told him I did not wish to converses with him further, that I only wanted to share my thoughts. When you realize that there are so many of these people all around everywhere, it makes you careful of discussing anything with anyone you do not know. There is a difference between discussion and the raving and ranting and name calling I experienced on the "other blog".

    •  I am sorry, the left disagrees with one another (17+ / 0-)

      quite often and on many issues. We do not walk in lockstep. I disagree with many of my closest friends on the left, but we listen to one another and learn because we all have different life experiences that influence our thought, but you will find a common thread of trying to improve the world and not destroy it with apathy and false propaganda.

      •  and because of this, it's harder for Dems (4+ / 0-)

        to become organized (unlike the lemmings in the GOP who are more than happy to allow someone else to tell them what to think, who to hate, how to vote, etc.)

        Republicans are like lemmings;
        Democrats and Independants are like cats -
        difficult to herd, and resistant to group think.

        HOWEVER - when we DO get motivated, we are a SIGNIFICANT force in the electorate.

        One can only hope that the insanity being promulgated by the GOP and especially the Tea Bagger lemmings will shortly push all the Dems and Indies past the point of passivity and over the line into actively voting the bastards OUT of our government, which they have steadily been dismantling since their beloved Saint Ronnie first began the decline of the American Republic.

        America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

        by dagnome on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:15:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here's what a cult is .. (6+ / 0-)

      A cult will deny fact, and go forward with false information, and those that follow will ignore the truth, no matter what.

      Fox News is a cult like machine.  Countless examples of false information being broadcasted and those who follow Fox news refuse to believe fox broadcasts false information.

      It's a cult.  

      " With religion you can't get just a little pregnant"

      by EarTo44 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:55:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fox is disgusting GOP propaganda. Period n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dotdash2u

        America's LAST HOPE: vote the GOP OUT in 2014 elections. MAKE them LOSE the House Majority and reduce their numbers in the Senate. Democrats move America forward - Republicans take us backward and are KILLING OUR NATION!

        by dagnome on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:15:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think, to some point, having viewed it with (13+ / 0-)

      my youngest sister, that Fox and all the rightwing propaganda didn't make her the hateful fearful incredibly unhappy person she is today, but they caused it to be full blown in her because the seed was already there.  

      Had I known the effect the hate they spew has on people like her, and could have recognized it years ago, maybe she could have been saved from herself.  As it is now, her ability to reason is gone; whatever the rightwing sources she views and listens to are the only ones who are right no matter how outrageous the lie, no matter how it can be disproved; liberals like me are scum and don't deserve a piece of the pie or a place in their world other than to use as a whipping post to get out the disgust they feel for us.  It's ugly and sad.  

      If my 79 year old liberal Mom passes before me there will be nothing left to bind me to my sister.  What this crap is doing to families is tragic.

      The GOP will destroy anything they can't own.

      by AnnieR on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:09:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I believe the older generation (4+ / 0-)

        those who listened to Huntley Brinkley and the beginnings of TV news got snared because they believed the news was always unbiased and truthful.  Thus they fell into the hole aptly created by news media that became and is infotainment and yes cult like. Then our awful courts allowed outright lies to allowed because news is not longer news but entertainment.  Played right into Aisles, Murdock and Kochs of this world.  It's sad and pitiful we have lost so many of this generation to the hate mongering.  When you are somewhere basically isolated you look to the boob tube for like minded people to listen to.  Sadly they are bombarded at the VA, Doctors offices, public waiting rooms and the like.  It starts there.

        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

        by lyta on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:46:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well said, lyta (2+ / 0-)

          You're the first person I've seen lay it out like that.  We no longer have the likes of Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite - and America is  infinitely worse off because of it.  Perhaps it's taken this long for the pundit who called television a "vast wasteland" to be proven right.  

          I strongly suspect that a study of the availability of diversity in mainstream news sources in rural areas would find, via the well-documented consolidation of ownership, that it's largely limited to one viewpoint - and that viewpoint is rightwing.  Every damned time.

          They don't win until we quit fighting!

          by Eyesbright on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 11:49:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  No. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

      by unclebucky on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:23:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not sure why this comment got any uprates... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jqb, Eyesbright, thanatokephaloides

      ...must be from those who believe Fox News is "open" and that Reagan and Obama are similar.

    •  we've seen the alternative and felt its fury (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thanatokephaloides

      w/30 + years of supply side reaganomics and bubble built redistribution and repatriation the multinational and corporitistas of me and miners needn't rely on the muppet faux followers for inequality and oppression of humanity.

      Please Hillary keep us from ignorance and irrationality for the better good of mankind.

      Fox viewers seek a mascot for solidarity? Maybe an Ostrich? Seek Truth young birds....

      by Jon Sullivan on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 12:25:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm lucky... (36+ / 0-)

    I was lucky, in a way. My father passed away about 6 months ago, at age 89, but he looked at people like Limbaugh and Hannity as fucking worthless. His favorite political show, when it was still on, was the Alyona Show from RT.

  •  Higher cable prices might be the answer (10+ / 0-)

    Maybe the rising price of cable will reduce the number of households with older conservatives whose TVs are tuned unerringly to Fox.

  •  I partially lost my Dad to RW chain emails (25+ / 0-)

    before I lost him for good,

    "If Wall Street paid a tax on every “game” they run, we would get enough revenue to run the government on." ~ Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 02:45:56 AM PST

    •  Chain hate e-mails (20+ / 0-)

      are most certainly as bad as hate radio. My own dad refused to use the internet because of his fear of government spying (though he was prescient rather than accurate at the time), but his friends had all the contents of those e-mails at hand during conversation and he believed his friends.
      My sympathies.

      "The 'Middle' is a crowded place - that is where the effective power is - the extreme right and left might annoy governments, but the middle terrifies them." Johnny Linehan

      by northsylvania on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:12:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  This (14+ / 0-)

      has been something that I have seen too. Friends actually believe this crap. Family members believe this garbage too. It's amazing how gullible some of these people are.

      It's the policy stupid

      by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:37:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Critical thinking is not a skill (25+ / 0-)

        valued or encouraged in a culture dependent upon beaming 'desire' into people's heads so they'll spend money they don't have on things they don't need. The system requires people to be suggestible, not meticulously protective of their own minds.

        And this is why you won't find courses in our public educational system concerned with critical thinking, rational analysis of ideas, or media resistance. The past few decades' worth of removing teacher-student interaction and discussion in favor of mass testing (regurgitation of pat factoids on demand) has worked very well. Older people tend to lose what critical thinking skills they may have once had as they lose so much else of what defined them in their prime of life, making them vulnerable to re-programming by outfits like Fox.

        Propaganda and brainwashing are art forms, very highly developed since the beginning of flickering light and sound displays governing individual and family time in the home. Of the 350 channels of nothing people pay far too much real money for every month, the vast majority of programming exists purely as vehicle for the advertising designed to instill desire for things people don't need.

        I keep wondering when people will finally figure out that if those advertisers are so anxious to beam desires into your head, they ought to be paying YOU for the privilege of being part of your home life instead of the other way around...

        There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. - Will Rogers

        by Joieau on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:07:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  off to Top Comments ! (8+ / 0-)

          “Vote for the party closest to you, but work for the movement you love.” ~ Thom Hartmann 6/12/13

          by ozsea1 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:13:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I love the outrage you display. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          thanatokephaloides

          On one hand you're a nuclear engineer and on the other you're the cutest clown I've ever seen. I love you, Joy!

          My life has been enriched by meeting people like you, randall, David, Dawn and the steelers, et al.

          I hope your garden doesn't take too bad a hit from next week's storm. Enjoyed your comments a few days ago re planting and hothouse prep, etc.

          I live on a one acre parcel on the edge of town. I'd love to have a garden but the local fauna would never allow it. I have rabbits, squirrels and deer who come up on my deck for the grain I put out for the critters.

          For xmas I gave my wildlife friends a 50# block of salt and built a crib (manger) to hold a 1/4 bale of hay. We had nearly 2 ft of snow on the ground at the time. My back yard was a very popular place.

          One evening a neighbor noticed the hay crib (assuming it was a nativity scene) and asked "Where's the baby Jesus". I answered him "Yes, where is the baby Jesus?"
           I still don't think he understands what happened there.

          Can't wait to see you guys May 3. Do you have any recommendations for the menu?

          I'm thinking local asparagus (some wrapped in aged prosciutto), melons, roasted peaches with maple syrup and walnuts, grilled pineapple, new potatoes, red onions and roasted romaine spears.

           photo images_zps7313895b.jpg

           photo dc7d4304-3ac5-481c-92b5-8c05a5a4beab_zps0945280e.jpg

          It'll be interesting to see what produce will be available in early May.

          Peace.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx

          by Gordon20024 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:30:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Amazon DOES pay you to be allowed to advertise! (0+ / 0-)

          I was a little surprised by this; they charge less for the device to be allowed to post ads on it when it is not in use.  Amazing customer protection!

          Old Hippies Never Give Up!

          by ravenrdr on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 12:07:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Another one (0+ / 0-)

        I keep getting a phone call to let, whoever they are,  reduce my interest rates on my credit card. I just hang up. I am sure many don't or they would not continue to operate.

        I was fortunate enough to have had a career where I had to make a lot of decisions based upon information and verification. Thus, I easily notice scams for what they are. Older people should be encouraged to take courses or seminars in helping them to determine what is legitimate and what isn't. The council on aging often does this kind of training.

    •  My wife's aunt (18+ / 0-)

      is a very outspoken and conservative woman, who, despite being kind to her family, is a fairly typical old, angry Republican. She is finally fed up with all the predatory fundraising, the constant stream of bullshit that clogs her mailbox, all of it trying to get money out of her.  She will always be a Republican, but she is angry at the conservative movement for what she, correctly, sees as predatory fundraising from old folks.  

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:50:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Happened to my aunt (13+ / 0-)

    By the end I was quite literally the ONLY relative who still spoke to her because she was so obnoxious about politics.  When Mum had been alive she could and did tell Betty to cut it out, but after she died in 1996 that was it.

    This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

    by Ellid on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:24:59 AM PST

  •  I think (33+ / 0-)

    it's more than just Fox News. I think it's the fusing of religion and politics, the changing face of America and probably some other things going on alongisde all that.

    There is a certain portion of the population who has been unable to adjust to the fact that it's not 1950 anymore and Fox News plays to that demographic. In some ways I wonder if it isn't a chicken or an egg problem. Did Fox make them worse or did Fox just exploit what was already out there?

    It's the policy stupid

    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:39:38 AM PST

    •  Both chickens and eggs (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cream Puff, jorogo, pennyck

      need to be fed and nurtured in order to grow.

    •  Likely started as exploiting and audience that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cream Puff, jorogo, dotdash2u, pennyck

      existed, but its success has brought in more people and made it worse with ever more extreme ideology.

      "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" Voltaire.

      by JWK on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:19:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, it is more than fox, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      thanatokephaloides

      but fox did make them worse.  Deliberately.  With malice aforethought.  Because you can make money off the panicked, the frightened, the angry, and the bigots.  

      It started with the feral rich and our government collaborating to denature our education system, changing it from something that was providing education to our children to something that was designed to program our children to be obedient, non-complaining factory workers.  This was begun in the late 1800s because "the great mass of the American people are too independent to be a good resource for factories, mines and mills."

      It continued with them denaturing what we were taught even further, because it's easier to lie to an ignorant, ill-educated person than it is to lie to a well-educated person.  And from the late-middle 1800s to today, they've lied to us again and again, usually to steal away our dignity, our liberty, our money, or our labor.  And many times all of the above simultaneously!

      So now we have a significant portion of our population that is easy meat for predators like the feral rich bastards behind the Tea Party, Citizens United, and fox.  And they're shaking that money tree for all it's worth, and laughing at the misery and destruction they're causing.

      It's not that there's a portion of the country that can't adjust to the fact that it's not the 50s anymore, it's that there's a part of the country that can't tell the truth from a lie, and is utterly uninterested in finding out which is which.  You can see it in the people you know who watch fox, read it in the personal accounts of others who know people who watch fox, and in accounts of scientists who've studied the situation and found that people who do not watch news AT ALL are overall better informed than fox addicts.

      And the saddest thing of all is that the liberals, the people who care about other people, the progressives, and those few Democrats who are left who really are Democrats and not DINOs, will not turn this around and use their own tactics against the people attempting to destroy America and the Constitution.  I understand why we won't--if we stoop to using their tactics against them, they've won a great victory, if not the war.

      But that's what the Jews in the ghettos of Warsaw and in Germany said in the 1930s and 40s.

      And look what happened to them. . .

      Henry D. Rinehart

      “In every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”

      by hdrinehart01 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:27:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My Mother (22+ / 0-)

    Got saved in the 70's. I thought she'd get past it, but now she's holed up in her house alone with Christian 'news' radio all day. When they're not begging for money they're pushing their own end of the world politics. These are people who openly look forward to war.
    I used to do home care for elders, the TV was always on, often the 700 Club. That is a news source so distorted it makes Fox look reasonable, but presented in such a way that I'd mistake it for news until I caught about 30 seconds of what they were saying.
    I think WWII groomed this generation for despair.

  •  Heard a sermon the other month (41+ / 0-)

    by a young woman who spoke of being a caregiver for an elderly lady who had Fox News on all the time.  She reported that over the months, she found herself getting more fearful, looking over her shoulder, worrying about going to the car after dark... it took her some time to connect it to the passive-smoke of Fox News, which she knew she disagreed with vehemently and had thought she was "tuning out."

    The message of the sermon was that the Gospel calls us to live in hope, not fear.  (A pacifist-Mennonite congregation, by the way.)

    Fox News = carcinogen.

    If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

    by AnnieJo on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 04:05:11 AM PST

  •  Hasn't happened to me and I'm a geezer, nor to the (12+ / 0-)

    geezers Mrs Rat and I run around with.  Maybe we are just lucky.

    •  It's not a geezer issue (19+ / 0-)

      It's a are you watching propaganda issue.  My siblings who watch Fox are just as bad.  Young people who watch Fox as there only news source are just as bad.  

      It is like a cult with intensive repetition of the party line.  Well financed, with strong appeals to powerful emotions (anger, hate and fear) and relentless.  They never change their message regardless of what is happening in the world.  They are consistent with the message they promote.  That is how propaganda works.  Endless repetition and appeals to the most base emotions.

      You aren't lucky.  You've just been informed enough to know when bullshit is being shoveled at you 24/7.  Most people I know who have become Foxbots didn't use to be that way.  But they were afraid for various reason: job insecurity, health problems, and yes, distrust of the government.  It's not that hard to fall for the Fox propaganda when you are fearful and uninformed.  

      Fox is literally the largest experiment in disinformation the world has ever seen.  Combine that with hate radio and you have a recipe for what we see today - poor whites who buy the Fox shit sandwich because no one is offering a message of hope as an alternative, and no party is addressing the concerns of increased poverty, increased costs, lack of socioeconomic mobility, etc.  

      I vote for Democrats, but far too often they disappoint me because too many of them, just to get elected, have been seduced by the "money power" as FDR so accurately called it.

      "If you tell the truth, you'll eventually be found out." Mark Twain

      by Steven D on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:43:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, it was my feeble attempt at humor. Of (4+ / 0-)

        course we don't watch Fox, nor to our friends. That goes without saying. Now, I have some cousins.........

      •  agreed - not just old people - my sister (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fugwb, swampyankee, pennyck, SilentBrook

        she is only 57 and isn't under the porch with a gun waiting for the G'ment to come take her guns/food/etc YET but any day.

        She thinks that Obama is the devil and blames stuff on him that preceded his tenure by years.  

        She is a Glenn Beck devotee and if she had the money she would have gone to some festival of his last summer.  I tried to explain that Glenn Beck has mental issues but she won't listen.

        I also had a coworker who is about 42 who met me at the door one day with statement that "Obama was going to outlaw the Internet".   I hadn't had my coffee yet that morning so I looked at her and said "it has been a while since I was a high school student taking government classes but the last time I did CONGRESS made laws not the President so if there was some specific law proposed she objected to it was best she contact her representative or senator"   She shut up and went back to her office.

    •  Approaching Geezer (13+ / 0-)

      I drop a Turn Off Fox card into the YMCA suggestion box at least monthly.  My daughter warns me when she is bringing around a right leaner.  I do not suffer fools and that includes brain washed twenty somethings.  I have offended and repulsed almost every gun hugger whom I know.  It is sad to lose friends, but I feel safer when there are no lethal weapons lurking.  I am so happy cannabis laws are changing, I am pissed that elected representatives want to break the earned benefits contract and I clearly see the evil graft of Citizens United.

      This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. ~ Bob Dylan ~

      by NCTim on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:39:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Turn suggestion to action. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NCTim, pennyck, home solar

        Quit, and let them know why. Go for a walk instead. I doubt a workout with the stress of Fox News is helpful to your health.

        I no longer tolerate pretending around right-wingers, and it's lost me friends, but I've gained at least as many new and better friends in the process.

        "All war is stupid" - JFK

        by jorogo on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:36:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Overall the YMCA is Positive (5+ / 0-)

          I work on our "We Build People" campaign which provides swim lessons, after school, summer day camp and sports program fees on a need basis.  We collaborate with the food bank and provide a safe and healthy environment for kids that would be left home alone.  All of our summer campers get breakfast and lunch.  The campers come from food insecure households.

          This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. ~ Bob Dylan ~

          by NCTim on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 10:33:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  My dad didn't succumb, exactly, but ... (14+ / 0-)

    Dad was pretty much housebound the last two years of his life, tethered to an oxygen machine because of his emphysema. He'd sit at his sunroom table and read all day long, with the TV going in the background.

    Judge Judy, Divorce Court - he'd watch them all (well, listen to them with one ear), this man who rarely watched television at all (except sports) most of his life. And, of course, Fox News, which was when he'd put his books and newspapers aside and pay attention.

    He wouldn't let me change the channel, no matter how much I begged. He found it all vastly amusing - but continued to vote the straight Republican ticket.

    On the very rare occasions that we'd talk about politics, he made clear that no matter how crazy the Republicans got, he'd never, never vote for a Democrat. He was a lobbyist in DC in the '90s and caught a bad case of Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

    I would not say that Fox News changed him. I think instead it gave him a place where he could confirm his own underlying biases and prejudices.

    West Virginia's new motto: Ex Os, Ex Mens (go look it up)

    by blonde moment on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 04:51:12 AM PST

  •  I watch a lot of MSNBC (5+ / 0-)

    and sometimes wonder if I am suffering something similar, but from a different side.

    Of course I don't think so.  There are times when I think they go too far focusing on the he said/he said approach, but I have been impressed with the data, the analyses, and the breaking stories.  

    Still, I wonder if I am suffering from derangement syndrome,

    www.tapestryofbronze.com

    by chloris creator on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:03:47 AM PST

  •  I know young men who think this way too (17+ / 0-)

    I just had an angry conversation with someone last night.

    That mid 20's young man, a smart person with multiple college degrees, actually said some of the stupidest things I've recently heard.

    Did you know that because Obama signed the ACA into law, Obama is in love with everything in the bill? It's "what he wanted" if he signed it.

    Well, no. I wanted lobster last night. I opted for chicken patties on a bun with tater tots and carrots. Does that mean that the meal I chose was exactly what I wanted and that I'm not entitled to explain that I would have preferred something else but I settled for what I could get?

    Or, did you know that one can't rely upon factchecking sites, because they're all biased towards the left?

    So, when they say that Obama's usage of executive orders are nothing out of the ordinary, and he's used them less than other presidents, and that qualitatively, he's not gone overboard on them either, you just can't believe them - but when a conservative commentator says that Obama's really abused the process, you should run with that idea.

    Or that since I can't instantaneously come up with a single law that Bush delayed, it has to be that Obama can't legitimately delay a law with an executive order.

    Of course, I can come with several laws that GWB refused to enforce at ALL via executive order - and doing that is likely beyond what a president should do via EO - but somehow, it's worse to simply delay the implementation of a portion of the ACA than it is to entirely ignore the enforcement of a law!

    And I can come up with GWB approving torture via EO - but it's worse for the Obama administration to delay the start of the employer mandate for a bill he supports than for Bush to have supported torturing other human beings!

    Add into that, the fact that I don't have a ton of laws that Bush delayed burned into my brain means that a short delay of the implementation of a law that a president supports ISN'T an issue!

    My point is that, not only the old can be lost in the sauce!

    •  A generation (2+ / 0-)

      Raised with Fox News blaring. Got to replace the geezers as they pop off to they great beyond.

      Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind. -Albert Schweitzer, (1875-1965)

      by supenau on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:50:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly, the aging tea baggers yelling keep (7+ / 0-)

        the governments hands off my Medicare or other even more ignorant slogans are dieing off. Fear based politics and sophisticated propaganda from all those coordinated Koch brother organizations. Did you know their daddy worked building oil refineries for Joseph Stalin from 1928 until his death and continued working for the Soviet Union until his contract was not renewed in 1956. Then he became an anticommunist and founder of the John Birch Society. I view their efforts as a Stalinist based attempt to impose authoritarian rule on the citizens of the United States. The highly organized and propagandized tea party was conceived, bought and paid for and is owned by the Kochs. Joe Stalin called that type of pseudo religious political organization "useful idiots".

        Never promote men who seek after a state-established religion; it is spiritual tyranny--the worst of despotism. It is turnpiking the way to heaven by human law, in order to establish ministerial gates to collect toll. John Leland

        by J Edward on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:38:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Lianna (7+ / 0-)

      is a 1983 John Sayles movie where a woman accepts that she is a lesbian.  At one point she's having a discussion with her husband and says "just because you can argue better than I can doesn't mean you are right".  

      Yes, just because we can't come up with perfect examples in the moment doesn't mean they don't exist.

      •  Of course you're right (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Scioto

        I just found it stunningly obtuse that the person I was talking to somehow thought it was more egregious to delay the implementation of a law one supported than to totally avoid implementing a law one doesn't like!

        The disconnect from reality, while it's what I expect from rightwingers, still surprises me on a regular basis.

    •  factchecking sites are biased toward the left? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      home solar

      Colbert told us years ago that the facts have a well known liberal bias

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      DEMAND CREATES JOBS!!!
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:10:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that might be a dig at the old saw against (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TrueBlueMajority

        Snopes not being "real" investigators, and having pro democrat pages... That sort of thing. Any website that actually posts "facts" that isn't a GOP affiliate isn't trusted by these sorts of people in my experience. And God only knows how much digging I do amongst others to find supporting documentation because I hate citing from memory without a backup.

        On that note here we go WorldTruth.tv - Snopes Got Snoped it's outright stolen from a chain email I shot to pieces with friends that forwarded it 4 years ago at least. But factcheck.org and anything else you might consider consulting and backtracking their research aren't trusted by the far right because they're told it's Liberal propaganda.

        I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

        by Ceri Cat on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:16:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  It is a cult. (22+ / 0-)

    I have a close relative (by marriage) that I have known for more than 50 years. He is well-off. Has always been conservative, but used to be quite reasonable about it (e.g., he was a member of the Sierra Club, was fine with EPA rules, etc.) He is not particularly religious, was basically just a fiscal conservative. As he aged and listened to Hannity, etc. his views got darker and darker, he deeply hates the Clintons and Obama, most foreigners, was keen on Iraq war, denies climate change, buys the whole insane right viewpoint except racism -- but even there he thinks that there is 'reverse racism', etc.

    It is just so sad. There is no possibility of a substantial conversation. We just talk about the weather and sports.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:10:33 AM PST

  •  Exactly what brought Hitler to power (5+ / 0-)

    I know that according to Nitwit's Law I can't mention the obvious, that this is the same demographic that voted for Adolph Hitler in 1932.

    •  Uh...old frightened people? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      swampyankee

      A LOT of the Nazis were on the youngish side.  Not sure I get your point.

      This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

      by Ellid on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:37:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The 20s and 30s in Germany (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        saluda, swampyankee

        were frightening. Hyper-inflation, massive unemployment, fear about the future... There was a lot for young Germans growing up in the Great Depression to be frightened of... Much more so than contemporary Americans.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:50:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Most voters were older (0+ / 0-)

        They fell for Hitler because they thought he was going to be another Bismarck.  Boy was that a swindle!

        •  There was a bit more to it than thinking he'd be (0+ / 0-)

          Otto von Bismarck II, Europe in general was in bad shape and Hitler looked and sounded good to solve a lot of the woes of the region, including the fact the people were starving thanks to the great depression. In fact though Hitler and the NSDAP did do some good for the region, and it pains the hell out of me personally every time I say that. And Europe overall, and especially Germany emerged from WWII in better shape than they'd entered it in. Compared to the period between the world wars post WWII was a far swifter recovery.
          Hitler had support globally, there were people from all over the world flocking to the Nazi banner honestly believing there'd be a glorious golden age in the third Reich. I've had the mixed fortune to know veterans of the Luftwaffe, and the Waffen-SS who were willing to discuss why in the latter case at least he'd personally joined up (Dutch national).
          It wasn't even that the voters were older though, there were real problems and here was a charismatic speaker promising solutions that sounded like they'd work. We focus on the negatives of Communism and the Nazi party a lot when we look at history from our present perspective, but it's hard to appreciate what really happened back then because we weren't there and history is typically written by the victors. And then you have professors and other teachers that only focus on their pet aspects (my high school senior year modern history teacher was obsessed with Rasputin's penis no joke).

          I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

          by Ceri Cat on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 01:31:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hitler was the original Tea Partier (0+ / 0-)

            And if he had "promising solutions that sounded like they'd work", it's only because his Tea Party followers were too stupid to think them through.  Just like today's Tea Partiers haven't thought through what defaulting on the nation's debt would entail.  

            The world is full of stupid people.  They probably make up a majority of the voters in any given country.  Stupid people are easy to control -- they can be made to lash out at imagined enemies, lulled into thinking that real enemies can be trusted, and revel in the sins of pride, wrath, greed, and envy.

            The reason that Europe recovered from WWII faster is due to America and the Soviet Union.  Americans with the Marshall plan and Soviets with central planning rebuilt the continent that Hitler destroyed.

            It's possible to appreciate what really happened back then.  In every generation, there is a Noam Chomsky who has things figured out, but is largely ignored by his contemporaries.  There were Russian revolutionaries who said that Stalin would be bad news; but they were liquidated and their memories erased.  There were Germans who foresaw the devastation that Hitler would bring; they were rounded up by the Gestapo ASAP.  There are people today, like Bill McKibben, who can see what our fossil fuel use is driving us toward; but 350.org remains a fringe element in the political discussion.

  •  God, it's like an addiction. Brian Wilson in the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    T Maysle

    sandbox, isolated for years; a guy watching porn nonstop on a bender, cutoff from reality, and when he goes out, he has a horribly skewed view of those around him....

    what's the difference???

    Please know I am not rude. I cannot rec anything from this browser. When I rec or post diaries I am a guest at some exotic locale's computer. Ayn is the bane!

    by Floyd Blue on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 05:49:02 AM PST

  •  This hits home for me (39+ / 0-)

    My father died last year. He was always a Republican, a wounded WW II combat veteran who voted for Nixon in every election he ran in (my parents were in his congressional district back in the day), but he didn't think much of Reagan, and when I was a young man he could always joke with me about politics and whatnot. Think Bob Dole. It was always a friendly, loving debate, no matter how upset we might get in the heat of it.

    That all ended with the rise of Rush Limbaugh. He listened to it every day and his life was never the same. No more debate, no more give-and-take. His daily dose of fear and hate. Fox News fed upon that foundation. My father became unable to talk about anything substantial with any of his five children. We encompass a range of political views, but for him we were all well beyond the pale.

    In his last years, as his health deteriorated, he lived as a victim, without joy. Everything was someone else's fault. It was heartbreaking and it would ultimately kill my mother.

    I don't think this is a small or insignificant thing. Much of it is ultimately tied to the "unwinding" of my parents' America, but the last years of his life, when he should have been surrounded by a loving family, insulated from the changes, were instead ruled by anger and outrage.

    I can't really describe the feeling the experience gives me. It's not really hatred -- it's more of a desire for retribution, for justice.

    •  My condolences. That is very sad. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orlaine, saluda, marina, mightymouse

      I hope you can find a constructive way to deal with having been so cheated.

      "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

      by Most Awesome Nana on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:42:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hope that G~d, the Great Tao, the Will of Heaven, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, lyta

      … or whatever one wants to call it, will redress the balance soon, bringing a rain of justice to relieve our time of moral drought.

      The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

      by lotlizard on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:53:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Same here. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlueOak, lyta, home solar

      I lost my father a few months ago.

      I grew up "arguing" with him about the news, but it was never personal. Our arguments were mostly a game, a way of testing our logic and knowledge about current events, and though sometimes heated they were always worthwhile. I learned a lot about building a case and knowing my limits because of that.

      But we grew apart the last few years of his life. He claimed he never watched Fox News, but his arguments were almost verbatim from Hannity et al. Whenever I would visit his TV was set to Fox, often all day long.

      I'm pretty sure he thought there was something wrong with me, and he had little patience with my fact-checking his statements.

      He was pessimistic about the future of the country, convinced that Obama was going to destroy it all through his socialism. I asked him one time if there was anything Obama had done that was positive. He thought a second and said no.

      I then told him that even though I thought GWBush was the worst president I could think of, I think he was onto something with the guest worker program.

      Then I asked if Obama's ending the war in Iraq was a good thing. My dad replied, "All wars end at some time or another. Obama didn't end it."

      That's when I knew our days of argument-as-sport were done. Nothing would get through. He was determined to believe that the country was headed for ruin and that the Democrats were to blame.

      It broke my heart. A man who had raised me to be open to other points of view and to live a life anchored in reason and facts now relied on rationalization and a refusal to examine contrary evidence.

      I don't think we had a serious conversation about anything during his last few years.

      If you’re gonna love one, you’ve got to love ‘em all. --Rev. Will Campbell

      by fiddler crabby on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 02:06:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My dad's in a nursing home (52+ / 0-)

    Even though he's the oldest person there, he's the only one not in a wheelchair or using a walker. He constantly turns the TV off Fox News, to the consternation of the other residents. The orderlies all being minorities ignore the resident's request to put it back on. It's the single most fun he has there.

    I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

    by jhecht on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:19:16 AM PST

  •  Same thing with my parents (11+ / 0-)

       After the 2012 election, my father, obviously frustrated with the results Fox had assured him wouldn't happen, angrily asked me how I -- a white, middle-aged male with a crewcut who makes a very good income -- could possibly vote for That Guy.

       I responded that I didn't particularly like Obama either, or most of the Democratic Party for that matter, but that the Republicans were just flat-out evil, and I couldn't in any way support THAT.

       Obama's to the right of Nixon, maybe even Reagan, and he's seen as a "socialist" by the Fox crowd. Truly astonishing brainwashing.

       

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:25:59 AM PST

    •  Not Reagan (0+ / 0-)

      not in terms of positions anyway.  Of outcomes under his presidency, maybe, but you can't ignore the rightward lurch that has happened to Republicans between their presidencies.

      First they came for the slippery-slope fallacists, and I said nothing. The End.

      by Cream Puff on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:47:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Older folks tend to still watch local networks (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orlaine, PsychoSavannah, lyta, home solar

    Fox 5 DC comes on at ten and other local news comes on at eleven. The set design draws them in and then they are hooked. The seniors who are online circulate old e-mails that are absurd and never fact checked. They hear these fake talking points regurgitated over and over again among their peer group. Yesterday I was told Obama sent a Winston Churchill statue back to wherever and that he banned the National Prayer Day and instead had a National Prayer Day for Muslims. They never use the google because they WANT  to believe the nonsense. It is almost hopeless to ever disagree with them and they will not be remembered as
    The Greatest Generation, but rather as The Hoodwinked Generation that fried the planet for their progeny, all for the love of hate.

  •  Well, it hasn't happened to me. (18+ / 0-)

    I will be 67 later this year. Talk to my son and he will tell you I am a commie-tree-hugger. He tells everyone that, unlike all the other old people he knows, I keep moving left.

    But that isn't true. I am no farther left than I was 20 years ago. It's just that the center keeps moving to the right.

    All old people are NOT addicted to Fox. None of my friends watch. We are NOT all angry, fearful and hiding in our homes.

    Don't use too broad a brush, please.

    "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

    by Most Awesome Nana on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:27:58 AM PST

    •  The diarist isn't saying all old people watch Fox. (6+ / 0-)

      He's saying that Fox preys upon people as they age, and draws them into a cult-like bubble.

      Lots of old people don't fall for it, haven't fallen for it.

      But, to the heartache of their children, too many do, and have.

      The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war. ♥ ♥ ♥ Forget Neo — The One is Minori Urakawa

      by lotlizard on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:58:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Just turned 67 and I *have* moved way left (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pennyck, lyta, Most Awesome Nana

      except I refuse to march in lockstep on ANY issue whatsoever.

      Meow!

      If it's
      Not your body,
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      And it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 02:15:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Center keeps moving right (0+ / 0-)

      30 years ago, I was on the far right.

      Somehow though, without changing my positions very much, with some of them moving a bit farther right and some of them moving farther left, I ended up first on the right, then a centrist, and now I'm firmly in the lefty-liberal camp. I haven't changed. The whole outlook has!

      Many of the so-called conservatives now are what were considered dangerous reactionaries when I was in college. The outlook is FEAR - of THEM. All of our problems are not our fault; we cannot change them on our own - the problem is THEM. The solution, therefore, is to identify THEM and eliminate with prejudice. Any right-wing genocidal movement in history has had that as its underlying theme - whether it was Rowanda, Nazis, or the witch craze of the 14th century. It's not so much that governments "go crazy" and do these things; it's not that the people don't know what's going on or how much, as was claimed in post-war Germany. It's that those in charge - often with the goal of commandeering the wealth or power of the identified THEM, get public support behind the wholesale murder of that other group. The way to do that is by assigning blame and fear among the general populace. The group identified doesn't matter. The outcome is the same.

      This cult-like bubble is what gets people to accept the position, and leaving out personal thoughts of how likely it is to be true, or what it would mean for THEM. It makes it harder for them to get out of it, and it makes it easier for them to disavow all knowledge or responsibility after it blows over.

      Panic now, before it's too late.

      by FredFredZ on Sun May 17, 2015 at 09:44:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tommymet
    He supports the use of force without question, as long as it’s aimed at foreigners.
      Then why does he hate Obama?

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:31:41 AM PST

  •  I have lost half of my family... (37+ / 0-)

    my husband's family, FIL/MIL/BIL/and SIL's have all disowned me.  I cannot say that Fox News is entirely to blame for this, but I can say that Fox, aggressive propaganda, my in-law's deeply held prejudice, and pressure from two family members in particular to convince my elderly in-laws to embrace the far right conservatism of the tea "party" and Libertariansim all contributed to what has resulted in my shunning.
    I cannot tell you how sad, how devastating, how painful this is.  I have become persona non-grata to people whom I love.  I listened and tried to understand their points-of-view, and put up with having bumper stickers and propaganda sneakily left by purse at family gatherings, had to sit as a captive audience while being told what my SIL's preacher thinks, and even put up with blatant racism for far too long before I finally put my foot down.  And when I finally had enough and spoke up, I was disowned.  As in not invited, no longer welcome, not even for Christmas (so much for those Christian values).
    I want to say to anyone who is experiencing this that I feel you and I am sorry...I know how much it hurts and how devastating it is.  As a mother and a wife and a LOVING DAUGHTER-IN-LAW/SIL, I grieve my loss of this family daily and dread the certain knowledge that my father-in-law is going to die without ever having reconciled his issues with me---for purely political reasons.  I cannot even begin to fathom this.  

    •  Small consolation - It's not you (19+ / 0-)

      My sister has taken up with a right wing bible abusing social circle.  While visiting, one of her friends made a very offensive and racist comment.  I called him on it and am now persona non grata.  The hard part is her daughters and my daughter are close.  Funny thing, the youngest daughter has reached out to me, back channel.  She wants out of the echo chamber.

      This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. ~ Bob Dylan ~

      by NCTim on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:46:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you. I wish I could believe entirely that (10+ / 0-)

        it really is not me, but I knew when I said what I said and did what I did that it wouldn't end well, and I am not sorry I did it.  Speaking up and protecting the innocent is not always easy and often has a painful price.  I accept that.
        I feel for you regarding your daughter.  It is very, very hard to just stand by and let our children be exposed to hatred or racism or propaganda or extreme viewpoints.  It is always a fine line when to intervene.  Their friends go to different churches or have differing political affiliations etc, family members make disgusting comments in their presence--it happens everywhere in their lives, at school, online.  For me, I have always taught my child that other people will always have different ideas and that most of the time we should be respectful of that, but that when it truly is racist or hateful we have to have the courage to say "stop".  It is hard enough for us, the adults, to negotiate interpersonal difficulties, it is even harder for our children.  I can only say to you that I support you in your effort to offer your niece (did I read that right?) an understanding place to seek shelter from what must be a very confusing situation for her.  

        •  It is my neice (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          surelyujest, marina, swampyankee

          A nice young adult that has assumed the bottom of the family pecking order.  The expectation of conformity relegates her to least favored status.  There is no recognition of every person being an individual.  I think she may be coming to live with us this summer.  The given reason is to work at a summer camp nearby.

          The differences between our households are dramatic.  There TV on all the time.  Here mostly listen to music.  There church based activities.  Here arts, concerts and public gatherings.  There lots of drama and conflict.  Here lots of goofing off and laughter.

          It is OK to tell people that they are special and you love them, but it would be better if they STFU.

          This land is your land and this land is my land, sure, but the world is run by those that never listen to music anyway. ~ Bob Dylan ~

          by NCTim on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 10:42:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your household sounds awesome. When can I (4+ / 0-)

            move in? Heh.
            But in all seriousness, it sounds like your niece coming to stay with you and yours may be just the experience to make a resounding difference.  Good on you for being such a loving presence in her life!
            And this:

            It is OK to tell people that they are special and you love them, but it would be better if they STFU.
            Exactly.
             
          •  Tim sounds like you're another person out of place (0+ / 0-)

            in NC I know now. I know a few liberals in the tri cities region, you seem very under represented up there, I sympathize (it's not any better around my hometown either). And I'm sorry Murdock left Australia and inflicted Fox on everyone, but if it's any consolation we can't stand him here either. Especially since the phone hacking BS in the UK.

            It's good at least one wants to get away from that poison, nobody deserves that sort of life, even if they don't realise what they're doing to themselves.

            I think I'll go watch one of the old St. Trinians movies, I need some anarchy to cheer me up after today. ;-)

            I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

            by Ceri Cat on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 02:28:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, I think I'd prefer (0+ / 0-)

            Your household, too!  It will be a great escape for her.  Blessings on you and your family for showing her love and acceptance when she really needs it.  

            It is OK to tell people that they are special and you love them, but it would be better if they STFU.
            I need this stitched on a pillow.
      •  "bible-abusing" that's a useful term (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marina, swampyankee, surelyujest, NCTim

        Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
        DEMAND CREATES JOBS!!!
        Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

        by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:12:12 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  That's horrible! I am sorry you have to deal with (5+ / 0-)

      this level of stupidity. RW Christians are the worst; so intolerant. I wish there was something I could tell you that would help, but I find it impossible to deal with people like that and have written them off in my own life. I don't think there is any hope for them.

      {{{{surelyujest}}}}

       

      "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

      by Most Awesome Nana on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 06:50:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nana I appreciate the hug more than words can (10+ / 0-)

        say.  I understand your feelings of futility and hopelessness about improving relationships with certain people, and I think that everybody can identify with this to a certain extent.  I think that we all know how difficult it is to negotiate diplomacy with people in our lives who have extreme views or difficult personalities, whether it be our parents or our boss or co-workers or friends.  But at what point is it too much?  At what point is it our own responsibility to make the difficult choice to speak up and say "I will not tolerate your racist views" or "keep your religious/political/etc beliefs to yourself"?  For me it was the racism that pushed me over the edge.  I simply could not tolerate it one single moment longer.  The religious differences played a role, and I even said at one point very plainly what this diary says, that I felt one of the family members had joined a cult.  But that is their choice to make, not mine.  However, making disgusting racist jokes in front of my child is not a choice.  I told the person to literally shut the f up and grow up and that it was the last time a comment like that would ever be made in my or my child's presence.  The person took me seriously...as I am no longer allowed to be in their presence.
        I have spent so much time internalizing this experience, trying to understand my own role and whether or not I too am to blame.  I even sought outside counseling to see if a professional could offer any solutions, to no avail.  I am absolutely certain that if anything is to resolve this it involves me having to grovel for forgiveness to my in-laws, which is not on the table.  Real damage has been done (if I told the story here again you would understand why this isn't something I am willing to do as it involves a very painful experience that happened to my daughter).  
        But I thank you for your compassion and I hope that anyone considering ending a family relationship will know that it is tough choice and not without severe emotional/familial consequences, and I can say that it is hell on a marriage!   Being disowned is even worse.

        •  I think you have done the right thing. (7+ / 0-)

          Sometimes we must disconnect from toxic people, or we risk further damaging ourselves and our families.

          It isn't easy, and it will always hurt. But it can be necessary.

          "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." - George Carlin

          by Most Awesome Nana on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:57:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm so sorry for you. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          surelyujest, marina, swampyankee, lyta

          {{{Surelyyujest}}}

          Life is about boundaries. Without them we become doormats and are preyed upon. I know it's very painful for you to have lost so many family members. What you did though, by calling out the relative who made the racists remarks, taught your children that you "walk the walk" as we say so often on here. That's a valuable lesson. It will give them courage. You should not blame yourself.

          I have no relationship with my brother and SIL who are racist, and Fox viewers. There is no talking to them. Their two children work manufacturing handguns. In a factory that LITERALLY runs 24/7-364 days.

          America is a COUNTRY, not a CORPORATION. She doesn't need a CEO. Vote Obama.

          by manneckdesign on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:47:44 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  gentle hugs.I am dealing with the same hateful (20+ / 0-)

      nonsense from family.It is devestating.It has been angrily
      demanded of me that I 'respect' their right wing,born-again
      beliefs-and I am damned for being a liberal and an agnostic.
       No respect for my beliefs is given at all-and after a huge
      fight at Christmas,I have been banned.
       Away from it,with the help of a counseler and friends I
      am realizing how toxic it was,and how ill it was making me.

      Conservatism is killing this country. Jayden

      by swampyankee on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:36:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  { { { swampyankee } } } (11+ / 0-)

        I'm soooo sorry you are going through this.  I know it hurts, and I know you wouldn't want it this way if given a better choice.  I absolutely applaud your efforts at seeking professional intervention/advice!!  I did too, although sadly it didn't really offer me another way of dealing with my in-laws directly, it merely brought to my attention that I really was committed to healing the relationship, when others involved simply were not willing.  And "toxic" is exactly the right word for it!  You are so right.
        Please know that you are not alone in this experience and that I, too, know the pain and sadness you are feeling.  We may be strangers, but we are joined by our mutual challenges.  {{{ hugs }}}

        •  thank-you and more hugs. :) You are exactly right (7+ / 0-)

          about being commited to healing the relationship,when others
          are not willing.It was a kitchen sink fight-forty years worth
          of family dysfunction was thrown into the whole poisonous
          brew.My youngest sister and her daughter verbally abused
          me & manhandled me-
            I was so shaken by this that I literally went to bed for six
          weeks,save for my counseler visits.
            I am glad to know I am not alone-

          Conservatism is killing this country. Jayden

          by swampyankee on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:04:36 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  swampyankee, I am horrified to read these words! (10+ / 0-)
            My youngest sister and her daughter verbally abused
             me & manhandled me-
            I am just so sad and angry for you.  Abuse is the end game and you must do whatever you have to to never, ever allow this to be done to you ever again!  I can only imagine the mental and emotional onslaught you have been through as you work through all of this.  Please, if you would like to, you are welcome to write to me privately via kosmail and we can e-mail privately if that is comfortable for you.  If not, I completely understand, and I mean that as it relates both to the delicate privacy issues and as it relates to what you have been experiencing.  I am just so sorry to hear this and I personally am actually really grateful I stumbled upon this particular diary today.  Just getting some of this off of my chest for a moment has improved things for me.  I really do feel better having shared some of the feelings I've been bottling up inside and I hope you do too.  No pressure, just know the invitation is there.  It is hard for me to discuss too openly the very private nature of what has taken place and I would not be comfortable posting explicit comments that my family or even strangers can read online that disclose such private events and people (because of friends and family that know me and know I am a dkos member etc).  In other words, it wouldn't be right.  But I do wish to extend myself to you and let you know that you're not alone.  Keep fighting for love, swampyankee, healing is worth it.  Things rarely end up as we wish or expect, but it all comes down to what each of us has to live with in our selves at the end of every day.  Be that person, the one you can love and live with.  
    •  Sometimes it goes the other way (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      surelyujest, swampyankee, mightymouse

      I disowned my parents due to overwhelming racism and their far turn to the right, in part thanks to Fox News which I hear is on their TV all day.

      It is hard to lose family over politics, but sometimes it is necessary. I just could not participate and pretend. And I do not regret it, even though some people tell me I will.

      •  kim, it sounds like you have had to make (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        swampyankee, mightymouse

        some very difficult choices.  None of us can know by simply reading comments here how much you had to go through or what took place over what was likely many, many years to finally lead you to that decision, but I can empathize and imagine that it must have been very painful for you.  I do not imagine that what led up to your choice was easy or simple or without much doubt on your part, it never is.
        You sound like someone who has taken the incredibly difficult steps to protect your self and your well being.  I hope with all my heart that you can move forward positively and that also, if the opportunity should arise for these relationships in your life to heal, that you can work through that.  I do not imagine that it was ever so simple as political differences for you because I know it isn't for me and my family--too much "stuff" along the way that led us here.
        I say good for you, kim, for having the wherewithal to take of yourself.  I am never glad to hear of families being ripped apart and people being hurt over political fury, but we each have to make tough choices.  

  •  That Salon piece is incredibly offensive (0+ / 0-)

    In very poor taste to joke about cancer and Alzheimer's.

    •  For those who haven't read the Salon article (17+ / 0-)

      the only mention of those two things are

      My dad is 67 years old, a full year younger than the average Fox viewer, who is 68, according to an analysis in New York magazine by columnist Frank Rich.  I’ve read accounts of people my age — 40 or so — losing parents to cancer or Alzheimer’s, but just as big a tragedy are the crops of grandmothers and grandfathers debilitated by Fox News-induced hysteria.
      I don't think it is a joke, or poor taste.
      •  if it's not a joke then it's even worse taste nt (0+ / 0-)
        •  No its not. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          swampyankee, BlueOak

          Alzheimers and age are not sacred things, taboo, and not to be mentioned. They are just facts of life. There's nothing wrong with that quoted section.

          •  equating the loss of a grandparent to FOX (0+ / 0-)

            with a terrible death by cancer is EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE.

            •  The damage is the same... (5+ / 0-)

              Both rob the elderly of their critical thinking faculties. It's not a coincidence that the majority of Fox viewers are also the elderly. Lack of thinking skills is still a lack of thinking skills, regardless of the cause. Those with Alzheimer's are delusional. Those who watch Fox are delusional. In many ways, the damage can be the same.  

              •  you should be ashamed for saying something like (0+ / 0-)

                that.  I can only hope that is due to feeblemindedness rather than cruelty.

                •  Do you deny they are being taken advantage of? (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  BMScott, Jim Domenico, swampyankee

                  There are numerous examples on here of parents with medical conditions that had those conditions exacerbated by watching Fox. That is literally dangerous. It's something anyone with aging parents should be concerned about. It doesn't help matters that as people age, their reasoning skills begin to slow down. Fox preys on this. They count on it. This is exploitation in the worst possible sense. Taking people who are already in a vulnerable condition and making that condition worse. Is it the same as cancer? Probably not. Is it the same as Alzheimer's? There is an argument that can be made for that.  

                  •  FOX is horrible but NOT THE SAME AS CANCER! (0+ / 0-)

                    Jesus H. Christ, do you want me to post pictures of people undergoing chemo to jumpstart your humanity?

                    I'm losing patience, of course FOX News takes advantage of old people.  Compare FOX News to con men, compare it to swindlers, but if you can't see the categorical difference between a television show and Alzheimer's, I'm not sure what to say to you.

                    •  Cancer is going a bit far... (0+ / 0-)

                      But it's still doing damage to people's health. Which is something that needs to be dealt with.

                    •  Right-wing anti-science is dangerous! (0+ / 0-)

                      I also read GOPUSA and Red State, and subscribe. I get some ads from their "partners" that encourage everything from supplements to Rife Machines (google it) to use INSTEAD of proven, accepted, medical treatments for everything from diabetes to arthritis to cancer. They are not suggesting these as a complimentary adjunct to the medical treatments - THEY RECOMMEND THROWING AWAY YOUR MEDICATIONS! In those ads, and in many of the user-written articles, is an underlying distrust of anything "They" want you to have, as it's part of the whole "death panels" mentality. This is dangerous, is close to practicing medicine without a license (which they've gotten away with by courts accepting their fine-print disclaimers).

                      While this whole right-wing-tea-party Fox-driven hatred of others is not Alzheimer's, there's functionally no difference between can no longer use mental facilities and WILL no longer use mental facilities. The outcome is the same. They no longer use their own minds, and have someone thinking and making decisions for them.

                      The difference is choice. People can choose whether to watch all of this hatred-and-fear and anti-reality nonsense and buy into it. People with Alzheimer's cannot. A major point of difference is that with Alzheimer's, there's reason to take major decision-making away from them, whereas, in a free society, there is not with those who choose the anti-reality nonsense from the Reich. It's someone's right to be wrong in a free democracy.

                      Panic now, before it's too late.

                      by FredFredZ on Sun May 17, 2015 at 10:01:08 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  thanks for your Concern..... (0+ / 0-)

          SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

  •  As I've said before (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, mightymouse, Lefty Coaster

    there is a special place in hell for Murdoch and Ailes.

    "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

    by TLS66 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:18:32 AM PST

  •  Thankfully, my father was NOT lost to Fox (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Scioto, Fury, myboo, tommymet, dotdash2u, lyta

    Although my father-in-law is a lost cause now.

    My father, who passed away in 2002, had grown up as part of the Party Machine Republicans (tm) of the west.  A second or third cousin of mine was the leader of the ND GOP for many years.

    After Bush I, my father - who had a bit of a libertarian streak and thought that the direction of the Republican party was completely off base (he hated the War on Drugs with a passion because he felt it was stupid) - voted for Bill Clinton.   During the Lewinski scandal he said he regretted his vote a little, but then he also patiently explained to my teenaged self why a flat tax was completely unworkable.

    He had liked Reagan, but he didn't believe "no new taxes" was a viable way to run the country.  He believed we should legalize all drugs, tax the snot out of them, and then use the proceeds to fund universal healthcare.

    Hell, at this point if he were still alive he'd probably have formally switched to Dem like my mother.

    The Cake is a lie. In Pie there is Truth. ~ Fordmandalay

    by catwho on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:31:23 AM PST

    •  Well your dad and I are in agreement on one thing (0+ / 0-)

      Legalizing and regulating the currently illegal drugs would save our countries millions at least, controlling distribution through regulation and taxation also makes it easier to help those who have a problem that seek help, and it's a revenue raiser for the government. Using that for UHC with the current amount the USA spends on healthcare on top? Perfectly doable IMO, and you'd probably have billions more saved, per capita the USA government is the largest spender on healthcare globally, which is scary since so much of the rest of the list have UHC.

      I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

      by Ceri Cat on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 03:01:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yay! Courageous! (0+ / 0-)

        Like the rest of the oily oligarchs, the only thing they understand is money, and we could suck that right out of their pockets by declaring a War-on-Drugs ceasefire. They, and the DEA, would have to look for honest work like the rest of us.

  •  mennonites for FOX "news"?????? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, saluda, tommymet, dotdash2u, mightymouse

    breathtaking.  literally.

    my take on oldsters watching and believing:  
    it's simplistic. you don't have to even try to do any deep thinking as you listen.  and as one ages, that processing becomes harder.
    ALSO, the cortisol issue that i've mentioned before.  FOX raises cortisol levels, and that is ADDICTING.

    FOX watchers are addicted to FOX.  

    I am tired of laughing at the irony of their stupidity.

    by stagemom on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:51:05 AM PST

    •  The mennonite Fox connection is a shocking (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      stagemom, mightymouse, swampyankee

      fact.  I have close friends who's mennonite families have been embroiled in this situation for a number of years now.  It seems so antithetical to a pacifist religion.

      My friends have been experiencing the same pain and turmoil expressed on this thread, for some time now.  

      So far they have found no resolution and are trying to help their parents thru their old age with as much comfort and support as the situation will allow.

      As an outsider it seems so inexplicable to me that a tight community that has strong faith and principles which withstood all sorts of pressure, challenge and attack for so long, should fall so easily to the Fox propaganda blitz.

      •  are the mennonites the ones who live in colonies? (0+ / 0-)

        there may be something cult-like there.

        An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

        by mightymouse on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:58:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No. They are anabaptists with roots in (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mightymouse

          central Europe going back to the 1500s. Pacifism and refusal to perform military service goes back to this period.

          There have been a number of schisms within the church including with the Amish at the end of the 1600s in Switzerland.  As with other religions, many mennonites immigrated here to escape religious oppression in Europe, some of which was deadly.

          There are many different mennonite communities in this country and thruout the world.  I grew up near one in central Ohio and my friends families live near Lancaster, PA.

          Some communities and congregations are more conservative than others but my impression is that they are a well established religion over centuries, rather than a cult.

          Simplicity of life-style and adhering to longstanding traditions was the type of 'conservatism' I was most aware of.

          The Fox News invasion seems like a lightening-swift, radical and counter-intuitive shift that has me totally gobsmacked.

          •  It does seem odd (0+ / 0-)

            I know most Mennonites aren't as far into being Luddites like the Amish, but Fox news goes against their character on so many levels. It's exactly like hearing Quakers spouting snippets from Fox.

            I wish I had stocks in aluminium these days. All that foil would be a great investment opportunity.

            by Ceri Cat on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 03:04:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Same here . Fox News is bad for the U.S. (9+ / 0-)

    We have this entire generation brainwashed by one propaganda machine, and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

    Say goodbye to your grandparents if you haven't all ready.

    This is so sad, but there are hundreds of thousands of us that have lost our parents to Fox Propaganda.

    What's even sadder, is if you PROVE they have false information on any of the talking points, they become upset and distant.    

    I wish we had some sort of Federal Communications Commission.  They could evaluate what is news, what is propaganda ?  They could revoke broadcasting privileges if it were proven that a broadcaster were in fact, lying, or spreading incorrect information.  They could be removed if found to be somehow influencing our election process?

    We should somehow come up with an anti propaganda commission.    We could call it the FCC

    " With religion you can't get just a little pregnant"

    by EarTo44 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:52:07 AM PST

    •  This is why Fox News cannot broadcast in Canada (0+ / 0-)

      They insist that the news be factual.

      Lying on the air, and calling it news is illegal there.

      They could be Fox Entertainment or Fox Opinion, but that is not what they want or need to feed their "legitimacy" of being the only fair and accurate news reporting.

      Panic now, before it's too late.

      by FredFredZ on Sun May 17, 2015 at 10:06:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fox News (6+ / 0-)

    is a finely tuned propaganda machine, with it's own stable of pundits who say what they're paid to say, and an interconnected network of "independent" far right sources that mouth the same talking points, thus reinforcing the idea that there's some kind of actual, legitimate, fact based argument involved. The techniques they use are well-tested and proven to fool many, many otherwise intelligent people.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 07:57:55 AM PST

  •  Same thing with my parents (9+ / 0-)

    Mom and dad are both retired Southern Baptist missionaries.  They were the ones that taught me to be curious, to question, to reason, and to find out for myself rather than just swallow what others told me as the truth.  They were the ones that went slap off on my teacher (private Christian school) who was trying to convince me that the dinosaurs were fake, evolution was a lie, and the earth was only 6000 years old.  They took me to see dinosaur bones and the Grand Canyon and all of those other magnificent places, they then told me that they believed that God set evolution into motion...  

    Fast forward 20 years and they are rabid RWNJ's.  Obama is a Muslim socialist hell bent on destroying American, Bush was the best President ever (what a godly man- my mom said). It goes on and on and on.... She once said the only news she would ever watch was Fox News (thankfully they don't have cable).  

    It's incredibly sad to me to see all the stories like mine in the posts above.  Reasoned debate and intellectual discourse have gone out the window, all replaced by fear mongering (yes, even on our side) and hatred of "the other".

    You can get animals addicted to a harmful substance, you can dissect their brains, but you throw their own feces back at them, and suddenly you're unprofessional. -Amy Farrah Fowler/The Big Bang Theory -7.50, -5.03

    by dawgflyer13 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:03:53 AM PST

  •  Kind of depressing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fury, ivorybill, tommymet, pacifica

    to read all this. The other side of Fox News propagandization of the right is the polarization of the left. Basically in self defense. I can see it in myself. The lockstep Republican outlook means that I can't even imagine voting for an R. Meanwhile, I do question things on the D side, but the other side seems to me so rotten that I'll defend Obama and Pelosi regardless.
    I suppose only some existential threat to the nation would cause us to drop this baloney.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by deebee on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:08:43 AM PST

  •  I feel lucky (7+ / 0-)

    Among Democratic activists here in the Boston area, I'm around a lot of people whose parents and grandparents were old lefties, like socialists in the 30s or SDS. My own family were mostly old-school machine Democrats if they cared at all.

    But the machine died out, people moved out of the old neighborhood, etc. My dad, who'll be 70 soon, was not particularly political for much of his life. He voted for Ted Kennedy in the 1980 Democratic primary, but for Anderson (who did very well here) in the general. In 1984 he actually voted for Reagan. Perot in '92.

    Sometime in the 90s, as I was becoming politically involved and the GOP turned harder to the right (and Clinton followed), he turned to the left. Subscribed to The Nation, bought Robert Reich and Tom Tomorrow's books. Walked out of his Catholic church in the middle of a sermon against same-sex marriage. Since about 1995 his politics and mine have been indistinguishable. Thank heavens he didn't get into Fox News. I wouldn't be able to stand that.

    “Republicans...think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people... And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it.” Harry S. Truman

    by fenway49 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:24:23 AM PST

  •  My mother's side of the family are long gone. (8+ / 0-)

    Down the shit hole of birtherism, climate change denial, all of it.

    My grandfather was always an incrediby deliberate, thoughtful man.  Highly educated, and served his country for 30 years.  Now he has become prone to brash, angry comments that sound like a Glenn Beck rant...an no, he's not senile or otherwise infirm.   It's really so sad to watch.

    At least my parents and siblings are all sane.

    "Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." - Robert G. Ingersoll

    by Apost8 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:32:53 AM PST

  •  GROUND ZERO MOSQUE !!!!!! (7+ / 0-)

    Ask them about the "Ground Zero Mosque" and how Fox News had two years of hysteria over it.  You know what happened?  It opened several years ago.

    The whole thing was bullshit from start to finish, dad, and you wasted all that time you could have spent on hobbies or playing with your grandkids.  That time is gone forever, all those chances are lost.  Come back to reality!

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:55:00 AM PST

  •  Konan is on to something with the comment that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weneedahero, swampyankee, lyta

    "Fox didn't change them. It just gave them a voice that they didn't have before."

    Whether they grew up in the South, the North, the East or the West, we're talking about the generation that was raised to believe that racial segregation was either part of the natural order, or something that (while unjust) wouldn't change in their lifetimes.

    It took only three decades for desegregation to move from protests in the 50's, to legislation in the 60's, to achieve wide effect with the court cases of the 70's. In historical terms, the desegregation of America happened almost overnight.

    Even more rapid was the appearance of black athletes and entertainers in popular culture. Kids growing up in all-white neighborhoods were getting to know Bill Cosby, Will Chamberlain and the Jackson Five via television. This created a significant culture gap between the racists and their own children. The adults not only had to tolerate desegregation, they couldn't even complain about it in front of their kids. Overt racism marked one as a backward "hillbilly". So they took their resentment and buried it deep.

    This is "The Silent Majority" that Richard Nixon appealed to. These are the folks who understood perfectly well what Ronald Reagan meant by "Government is the problem".

    The GOP was wildly successful at transforming repressed racial resentment into an open hostility toward "Big Government". It's impervious to critical thinking because it's fueled by fossilized racism.

    FOX and TalkRadio simply set up "socially acceptable" targets for them: Taxes, big government, illegal immigrants, gay marriage... any anything that Wall Street is opposed to.

    “It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing
    he was never reasoned into” - Jonathan Swift

    by jjohnjj on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 08:58:22 AM PST

    •  The 65-70 generation were the protesters in 1960s (0+ / 0-)

      The people who were born in 1945 are turning 70 this year. They reached adulthood in the mid-60s.

      The "Greatest Generation" born 1915-1930 are 85-100. They are no longer a political force to be reckoned with.

      It's the SAME PEOPLE who fought for racial equality, against social injustice, for the rights to birth control and abortion, for consumer protection laws, to fight pollution, rights of those with disabilities, and so forth.

      Somehow, the old vietnam protesters, the hippies of their day (complete with free-love and drugs) are the exact same people who are now fighting against legalization of drugs such as marijuana, fighting against birth control and abortion, through some slick re-definitions of birth control AS abortion - regardless of the science. They are climate-change deniers although in their youth fought against pollution and polluters. What happened???? It's not just age.

      Panic now, before it's too late.

      by FredFredZ on Sun May 17, 2015 at 10:17:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wow (9+ / 0-)

    I think we have all read of or known about individual families going through this, and it is powerful to see these testimonies--for the first time--beginning to be gathered together.

    My Dad passed away some years back. We didn't exactly lose him to Fox, as his powerful instinct for skepticism remained to the end. But it indirectly tattered the relationship some.

    My stepmother, who survives, was really under the influence. Thanks to her, they had Fox on in the house all day every day. When it was not political commentary, it seemed to be all "missing white girls," police chases, and the like. She actually got a triple whammy: from Fox, an evangelical megachurch, and the local Republican committee. (Dad quietly left that church after hearing a vicious anti-gay sermon, for which I happened to be present.) I last saw my stepmother a couple of years ago. She didn't want to see us and within 10 minutes was talking Fox politics.

    Deprogramming: just a few preliminary thoughts.

    1) Fox (and Tea Party stuff) seems to have some intrinsic appeal for many (white) people who feel they are sliding in social status, or are in serious danger of losing it, for any reason. This is actually the true situation of a lot of people in society today, including white people. Those who are on their way up, or at last have a real good chance, or never had anything to lose, not so much. (Need to do a whole diary on this, another time.) Fox plays on those particular fears. One of the reasons that people may feel they are losing social status, or in danger of losing it, is old age...medical issues, financial issues, loss of social roles, falling behind on cultural trends, losing friends and generally feeling sidelined, all give many of us a certain sense of added vulnerability as we age. Fox plays on a looming sense that everything is falling apart in society--a metaphor for the individual? An excuse for the individual? There is some resonance here that deserves exploration.

    2) Social isolation specifically. If we are retired, and perhaps have lourselves lost other family and friends to death, aging, moving away, and other causes, it gets lonely. Also, if we have no work to do, paid or unpaid, that seems valuable to us, it can get boring. Now...it is a fact of psychology, that on a pre-conscious level, our mind does not know the difference between a friendly face in the next chair and a friendly face on TV. We therefore can derive a certain level of psychological comfort just from having those virtual faces and voices in the room. When we turn on the tube to the same faces and voices every day, it's almost like having friends who regularly drop by. And these faces and voices on Fox SEEM to be on OUR side.

    3)  Repetition is another thing that affects us on a pre-conscious level. Like a water dripping on stone, given long enough it will wear a path through the pre-conscious mind to the conscious level and at leat influence us, if not effect a total transformation.

    4) Alas, for most of us, old age does do away with a bit of our mental function, sometimes so subtly that we and those around us don't notice. Even if we are just a little slower in processing things, we become a little more vulnerable to fast talkers without probably being aware of this. We also may self-isolate in an effort to protect ourselves...and then turn on something like Fox for comfort.

    5) TV in general, not just Fox, tends to put the mind in something like meditative state. Some of us have watched TV mindlessly "just to relax." in this relaxed states, some individuals--even some very book-smart people--are vulnerable on a level that amounts to actual hypnotic suggestion.

    6) Finally...I read this recently is some blog post and am sorry not to remember who should be credited. At some point, if we are to be true friends to our aging parents, we have to get over the fact that they are our parents, and decline to defer. For example, if my 90-year old grandfather (hypothetically) wants to go on driving even after a couple of accidents caused by his slow reaction time, I may have swallow my sense of daughterly deference prevent it.

    So some preliminary questions to think about in the case of Fox-addicted individuals: does this person have a sense of vulnrability that resonates with the scare tactics on Fox? Is they are way to help this person feel more secure, socially connected, to sense that others are on their side? We don't hesitate to control children's TV watching hours, but elders....that's a biggie, and yet it may be that so much TV is destrctive for elders as well.  How to approach that? Are there other activities, forms of comfort and entertainment and social interactions available that could fill gaps if the remote "gets lost"? If Mom is descending into self-isolation, how tough are we prepared to be about that?  

    I think this is tremendously important and interesting topic and  hope it won't end with one diary.

     

    •  Sorry about the typos n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lefty Coaster
    •  This applies to voting as well... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse

      I hate to suggest this but we may have to change our voting laws to keep people with certain views from voting. This sounds worse than it actually is. If you have someone who denies climate change just because they believe Fox, then maybe their voting rights needs to be curtailed. Democracy is an experiment. Just like every other political philosophy. And just like every other political philosophy, it has it's faults. Which means steps need to be taken to weed out these faults. Unfortunately, in this case, that may mean keeping certain people from voting who rely on false information.

      The biggest threat in a democracy is not fascism, it's a false consensus. The majority of the voting public believing something that isn't true. We saw this with Iraq. Politics can be an emotional issue. But in the end, we are dealing with technical facts. And if you are making decisions based on lies then that undermines the effectiveness of democracy. And if you refuse to accept when you are wrong, then you are a danger to the democratic process and everyone else. It is no different than letting someone drive a car when they clearly aren't capable. Some things are too important to be left in the hands of people who are motivated solely by "belief".

  •  1930s Germany or "2 minutes of hate".... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pennyck

    Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United.

    by unclebucky on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:19:21 AM PST

  •  I've been lucky (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ridemybike

    Fox has only claimed distant relatives.

    None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free. The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies. -Johann von Goethe

    by gjohnsit on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:19:45 AM PST

  •  I lost my father to FOX, then I lost my father. (7+ / 0-)

    So I know the feeling about losing a parent to FOX news. Both of my parents absorb too much of it. Sadly, I really feel that some of the FOX misinformation led to my father's death this past October.

    In 2010 my parents moved to Colorado and my dad entered full retirement. In the year or so before moving my dad had prostate cancer treatment. After leaving NY, they claim to have had a hard time finding new doctors who take medicare. It didn't make sense to me until one day I read that one of the GOP/FOX lies about Obamacare was that doctors won't take new medicare patients .. I quickly put the two together. My parents may have had some trouble, but I think they got quickly discouraged because of FOX and delayed finding a doctor. It took some time (2+ years) but they found someone. Then this last summer my father had health issues ... it was never really clear what  was happening but there was fluid in the lungs, stress on the kidney and then a diagnosis of lung cancer. Sadly he never made it to one round of cancer treatment. After draining his lungs, he was constantly dizzy whenever he stood up. On his last day, he had several blood clots in his lungs that he was getting medication for. But one happened to get him. The doctor's revived him for little while, but told us because the cancer was everywhere, the CPR they performed probably broke ribs and giving his state, it was better to let him go.

    My father had lung cancer and he never (I repeat, never!) smoked. This is common!

    Lung cancer is not one of those cancers that can take a person out quickly. I can't help but thinking if they only had tried harder to find a doctor sooner, maybe this would have been corrected earlier. But, I believe that thanks to FOX, that wasn't the case.

    Ironically, I write this while in my parents house, in view of my dad's favorite place on the couch. I hate thinking of my mom being all alone now, but it is the sad reality.

    Change the world. Ask questions.

    by AstroCook on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:20:05 AM PST

  •  Pablum for the Paranoid. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    And personally we all know someone(s), who buy what FOX sells.  

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:24:38 AM PST

  •  The most revealing political conversation (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, home solar

    I ever had was very short.

    This was around 2007-2008.

    My sister-in-law announced: "I hate Hilary Clinton".

    I asked "Why?".

    She pondered a moment, then said: "I don't know.".

    Obviously, she had been influenced by constant repetition of negative comments about Clinton from Fox News and other sources.  She had not actively thought about what she was hearing, had just absorbed the negative impressions.

    She is not nearly as far gone as some of the people described in this dairy and comments.  Even in people who can still be talked with, there is an effect.

    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertrand Russell

    by Thutmose V on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:25:33 AM PST

  •  Fox Noise Programs Gullible, Right-Wing Amerikans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    who are bigots and idiots like Joseph Goebbels & Friends programmed Germans in the late 1930s and early 1940s.

  •  We don't need a "fairness doctrine"... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, lyta, home solar

    We need a truth doctrine. These shows spew outright lies. Putting a liberal on after them isn't going to change that. What needs to happen is the FCC needs to start cracking down on false information being peddled as fact. Sorry, but free speech covers opinions, not lies. Yes, it's that evil government regulating things again. It's also a chance to force a conversation about what Fox and talk radio are actually putting out there. A conversation I guarantee their zombie old man audience doesn't want to have.

    I once confronted a dittohead on my local paper's website about why he believes Rush on global warming. Pointing out of course the Rush has no degrees in anything and is therefore unqualified to even comment on the subject. It basically ended with him saying he believes Rush regardless. An admission that he doesn't think for himself.

    This is why regulation is necessary. They will wet their diapers and cry foul. But they will also be forced to defend their positions. Something they are ill equipped to do.  

  •  Too often, Fox News is dismisses as a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, pennyck, lyta

    root cause of the polarization of America.  Yes, before Fox News there was right wing radio, but television offers a sort of belief vindication that radio cannot.  And with the establishment of Fox News in '96, wingnuts could finally have their views molded and reenforced via every news medium available to them.  Right wing propaganda and disinformation had finally achieved total spectrum dominance.

    Check out this cool interactive graphic of ideological and party unity in the House.  Notice the sudden lurch to the right that begins in '96, when Fox News goes live.  

    There are historical examples of propaganda warping the minds of an entire nation (Nazi Germany).  The same thing is happening here, like the Germans, people are willingly submitting to the brainwashing.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:50:08 AM PST

  •  It's happened to my MIL... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    home solar

    For a period during the Dubya admin, I awoke to the fact that something was dreadfully.  It happened around the time we were gearing up for the Iraq invasion.  I kept asking questions like 'why are we attacking Iraq when the problem was AQ in Afghanistan?'

    It created a lot of friction between my wife and I - because she came from a lot more conservative family.  My wife started watching Keith Olbermann - to get my side of the story.  And she finally realized what is going on.  I sometimes credit him for saving our marriage :)

    But my MIL moved away from us a couple years before.  My FIL died in 1999.  She moved to a small town in the midwest.  She started watching Fox almost 24/7.  In 2007, she was kinda 'OK' with Obama - but Fox changed that.  My wife and I campaigned for him and our political views became more in line.  My MIL became more and more conspiracy laden and cultish.  My wife used to talk to her mom every day on the phone.  Now, they can go weeks, even months without talking.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 09:50:28 AM PST

  •  I lost my entire family to faux (5+ / 0-)

    When my deceased father received a posthumous award from the country, it was signed by Obama and so, no one in the family wanted it. I have it hanging in my garage.

    But, I no longer to speak to any of them. I was formerly very close to my sisters, but they and my mother have become very ugly, crazy people, completely unrecognizable from the people they were before.

    I have a deep down hope that one day they will be godsmacked into what has happened to them and will change their ways. I know in my core this will never happen and the chasm between us will only deeper with age. It's a period of my life I miss a great deal and no it will never, ever return.

    If I could blow up the Faux "News" transmitter and not hurt anyone or get caught, I would be devising a plan right now.

  •  FoxNoise gives a sense of belonging to its .... (5+ / 0-)

    audience. Say what you will, but they can flatter their audience by making them feel smarter and wiser than those who don't watch. And if someone is growing old and feeling marginalized then its a pretty empowering feeling.

    Also it's the way the talking heads can connect with the audience. We may find most of these personalities repulsive, but do know how connect with their audience.  

    Those talking heads rail against the "takers" - even though that describes most of their audience - but the audience comes away assuming that "they aren't talking about me!" because they're a part of the club.

  •  Kool aid.... (5+ / 0-)

    Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, ORielly, FAUX, ..... and to differing degrees and flavors, Savage and Jones...  the drinkers.... those who drive for a living... (  sales people, delivery drivers, and more notably... long haul truck drivers.. you know, the ones who protested in DC by tearing down barricades at the closed monuments a little while ago)  those who are stuck at home ( old folks, stay at home mothers) and small business owners or independent workers. (( farmers, shop owners, consultants...) basically people who are alone a great deal of the time, or who have full control over their environment ( aka, what is on the idiot or squawk box) without others either around to question, able to question ( the lone one or two employees) or are already brainwashed.

    There are plenty of boomers and gen-xers who are into this crap.. they are just less visible.  I know, because I was one of them. Life changes re-opened my eyes to who I was before I caught Fox Pox, and I changed back to being a moderate liberal.  Caused some great battles on my facebook wall, I'll tell you that... and some people I really care about, still, from that group, well.. I just have to avoid getting into it with them, but one by one they fall off my radar, off my page, or in some cases, in a spectacular burst of flame war, completely out of my life.

    Its potent Kool-Aid for the disenfranchised.. for those that scrabble hard for a living and get rewarded more meagerly than they would have a generation ago... for those who see retirement years on the horizon and barely can afford to live NOW, yet they are not disabled, they are educated, they work their tails off... but get paid shit ( or just less than they think they deserve in some cases)  in our declining society.  That's dangerous stuff.  And yeah, they work like a cult.

  •  Lost my Dad too...plus two brothers. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotdash2u, mightymouse, Jim Domenico

    What really struck me about "I Lost my Father to Fox News" was the part about how a steady diet of Fox fuels depression and anger.   YEARS ago, my Dad's psychiatrist told him he needed to stop watching the news. He has suffered from depression for years, and since most news is bad news,  I didn't think much of it at the time because I assumed Dad got his news from several sources.  I was unaware that he exclusively watched Fox, and at that time didn't know what Fox  was all about.  Now it REALLY makes sense  to me since Fox fuels fear and impending doom, and that was all Dad was watching.  It was having a negative effect on his mental health, and his doctor recognized it.

    For a little while, I think my Dad did stop watching, but it didn't last long.  He lives alone and gets all kinds of Rightwing mail, and he fell back into the habit of watching Fox, partially out of boredom, but also for a sense of purpose and "belonging."  It doesn't help that my brother also feeds him "information" from either Fox or ridiculous email chains and gets him all riled up.

    As the piece pointed out, even the commercials fuel fear.....telling people to buy gold, etc.  I think Dad asks me every week if my husband is buying gold.  Now I know why! 

     I find it REALLY sad that my Dad is living his last years with this unwarranted level of fear, anger and angst for the future of our country and the well being of his children and grandchildren.  It has also driven a wedge in our relationship since all he wants to talk about is how our country is falling apart and how evil Obama is (and that anyone who can't see it must be an idiot).  Nothing else matters to him anymore.

  •  Same thing for us with my husband's parents. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    weneedahero, lyta

    We still can't get them to stop hating Obama because he plans to take all the money they've saved to give it to the lazy poor people when they die.  They can't understand why we don't hate him, too.

    We printed out specific information from the IRS website that tells them that it isn't true at all and they simply refuse to ingest the information.  I think they just wouldn't feel like a member in good standing with Fox if they bought into the truth.

  •  Kept my mother for a month (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotdash2u, Lefty Coaster

    She has Alzheimer's but lives in her own home, with help. She has some paranoia/hallucinations and was getting very stressed(also has Fox News on, as do all her relatives in Texas). I kept her away from all news for a month, plus medications and it helped her a lot. She had bizarre ideas, like thinking that Walmart is owned by the Chinese, etc. but with no news, I found I could slowly explain things and she was in more agreement than not. She lost three brothers and a sister to Alzheimer's/heart issues, and the sister was a smoker and the first for us to notice the stress level increase for listening to Rush in the 90s and getting fearful ideas. Getting old is scary enough in this country, but the constant diet of fear-based news that raises the cortisol(stress hormones) can only be bad for other health issues.
    I would always recommend to get Fox addicts to switch to the Weather Channel awhile. At least they learn something factual. It is a poison and I would really like to see some research done on the elderly and watching it.

    The words of House Republican: We do not care.

    by Chun Yang on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 11:03:26 AM PST

  •  Like I posted before (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dotdash2u, mightymouse, Jim Domenico

    When I came home one afternoon, and heard the Fox station on, and my husband was watching, I informed him (quite loudly) that Fox news or any Fox station is banned from our household. So far so good.

    Are you a good witch or a bad witch?

    by misschris on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 11:20:10 AM PST

    •  you go (0+ / 0-)

      that is bad s*** and has no place in a decent home.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 01:05:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  There is a difference between cable and broadcast (0+ / 0-)

      Even I will catch a local Fox newscast now and then - they really can't screw up the traffic and weather reports too much. And I understand a good many of their regular programs are well regarded, like American Idol, Glee or The Simpsons. Fox News on cable is, of course, a whole different animal and should be banned from any thinking household.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 01:49:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Needed a scientific study of TVs effect on the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    protectspice, lyta

    Mind.  For example, I think the chronic repetition of showing the planes crash into the Twin Towers on TV  had an effect on peoples' acquiescence in the GWOT.  It numbed the intellect to any questioning of why this was an excuse to invade countries and kill people who had no part in what happened.
    It should be remembered, after Pearl Harbor, we did not declare war on Germany, they declared war on us.

    Also I think the internet has allowed all the small town nuts who used to be isolated in their basements to meet each other and become a national political force, e.g., the Tea Bag Party.

  •  Timely (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, swampyankee, SilentBrook

    I just lost a childhood friend to FOX.  We were born on the same day and we sat next to each other in first grade.  We're now 62 years old so it's been a long friendship.

    She frequently sent me the most bizarre mass emails and I'd respond with respectful comments, debunking some of the assertions.  Once in a while I'd send her a link to an article but I'm sure she never read them.

    The lasted straw for me was an email suggesting that Christians are losing their rights and would fight for them against, well, the mean evil non-Christians I guess.  I'm a non-Christian.  That was it.  I am finished with the relationship.  Done.  No way to redeem it at this point. But sad and scary how the propaganda transforms individuals into mean-spirited selfish paranoid people devoid of compassion for others.

  •  Lost my WHOLE FAMILY! (4+ / 0-)

    Amazing how they even talk with the same intonnations and how the programming has iimpacted their emotional response. They get as riled up as O'Reilly or Hannity and use the same tone of voice.  

    It has been a heartbreak for me for so many years. I say to my dad, as a journalist (now pretty much retired) and someone raised BY YOU to think critically, someone whose hero was Edward R. Murrow, it is hard to believe you consider me 'fringe' when I grew up to be exactly the person you wanted me to.

    RIP Nelson Mandela

    by boatsie on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:35:41 PM PST

  •  Fox News as a symptom of disease in the elderly (6+ / 0-)

    My mom had hydrocephaly, which is very common in the elderly--water pressure on the brain--unfortunately it took us a few years to have it diagnosed.  In retrospect, it turned her into a raving right-winger who would bark that you were a communist if you even slightly disagreed with something she said.  She always had Fox News on television, and would call me at all hours of the day and night, encouraging me to turn on the TV to see something on Fox she wanted me to see.

    In addition to her odd behavior, she was diagnosed from her walk, which was that tiny-stepping "elderly" walk that Tim Conway used to do when he played "The Old Man" on The Carol Burnett Show. Her surgeon put a tube in her head so the excess water would run down into her abdomen, thus relieving the pressure.  

    Within a few weeks of the pressure being relieved from her brain, she was suddenly nicer to talk to--her personality started to return to the lovely, empathetic woman she had been some years earlier.  She stopped barking out right wing talking points.  It became a pleasure to visit her instead of a chore.

    One day, apropos of nothing, while chatting with me on the phone, she told me that she had decided to go back to being an Independent.  She said she didn't like where the Republican party had gone.  "Some of those people are so mean-spirited!" she said.

    She still watched Fox News, but not 24-7 anymore, just for an hour at night.  Mostly just Huckabee, who has that pleasant facade that mostly covers up his viciousness.  She also still liked Shepard Smith.  But not the rest of them.

    She eventually passed on from something unrelated to her condition.  I was glad to have her back even for that short while.

  •  I can only add this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hadrons, Catte Nappe, SilentBrook

    Lot of people claim FAUX News has turned millions of Americans into crazies.  I don't see it that way.

    Despite Murdoch's right leaning public image he isn't pro-conservative, moderate or pro-liberal. Rather, he's pro-money. Period.

     Murdoch's genius was/is he can recognize a market. Years ago he recognized that millions of Americans were extremely ignorant and narrow minded. He also recognized that the latter was comprised primarily of christian fundamentalists, bigots, homophobes, xenophobes and bumper sticker patriots i.e. conservatives. He saw that no one with a lick of common sense or morality would support their ideas let alone legitimize them on TV. None of this discouraged, Murdoch, a man of no political affiliation or religious persuasion. Rather he saw a lucrative market ready to be raped and plundered to pay tribute to the only god he really believed in, money. Thus was born his demon child, FAUX News.

    The point is this. Murdoch didn't create the crazies, he pandered to them and legitimized them. He empowered them to believe that any hypocrisy could be ignored, any hatred rationalized, any fear expanded to apocalyptic proportions, any intellectual hole dug deeper and any hatred amplified.  Because he saw the $$$ it would generate in ad revenue which is all that really mattered.

    He didn't create a Americas unique garden of invasive conservative weeds, he simply gave them lots of water.

    No being has inherent power, only the illusion of power granted by others who similarly have none.

    by Mark701 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 12:57:40 PM PST

  •  amazing topic (0+ / 0-)

    it's heartbreaking to read all these stories. i guess i'm lucky my family, for all their faults, didn't go in the Fox direction.

    i wish you all strength.

    An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

    by mightymouse on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 01:06:53 PM PST

  •  My 83-year-old mom, who saw FDR... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook

    My mom, 83, has had a series of health problems (cancer, heart attack, two fractured vertebrae) from which she has, thank God, bounced back. But she regularly complains that in every medical waiting room, there's a TV tuned to Fox News.

    In the early 1930s my mom's family lived about 30 miles from Tupelo, Mississippi. Tupelo was the first city to get electricity from the TVA. FDR came to Tupelo to give a speech to celebrate. My mom still remembers my grandfather taking her to Tupelo to see FDR, hoisting her up on his shoulders so she could see above the crowd. Awhile back I ran across the text of FDR's speech that day--it was a week before my mom's third birthday.

    Damn right she's still a Democrat. Damn right she votes in every election.

    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

    by HeyMikey on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 02:04:05 PM PST

    •  Good for her. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HeyMikey

      Mine would have complained too, though I’m not sure whether she’d have been more annoyed by the choice of programming or by the fact that she couldn’t escape the TV irrespective of what was on.  An Eisenhower Republican when I was a kid, in recent years she was reading Mother Jones and The Nation until creeping dementia finally got her.

  •  An elderly relative of mine (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    is paranoid and miserable Fox worshiper. The Tea Party calls him all the time to ask him to open his wallet or staff a phone bank for some dead-end cause or other. Guess what? He's all-in, all the time--anything to keep the uppity throng from crashing the rarefied chambers of the power brokers. Which they inevitably will.

    A sad, sad case.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 03:40:24 PM PST

  •  There is one aspect of this I haven't seen (3+ / 0-)

    mentioned in either the blog or the comments I'm reading that I think definitely comes into play here.

    I'm turning 65 this year, and I basically grew up alongside broadcast TV as it grew from a few live shows to the monster it is today.  

    Many of the people I'm seeing commented on here were young(or at least younger) adults when all this started out in the early 50's.  During that time, and in the 2 or 3 decades that followed, television had not only a fairness doctrine in place, but simply wasn't allowed to present information that wasn't factually true.  Stations and networks were fined and discouraged from presenting false information, and this became a basic background filter for most, if not all, of us whenever we got information from the one-eyed monster.

    Fast forward to today, where there IS no fairness doctrine, and where Fox won its argument in court in FL that they didn't actually have to present real facts.  Of course, those of us who follow DKos and other blogs know about this, but I'm thinking that many of these people(who probably aren't on the internet much) still have the mindset that they're getting actual information rather than someone's daily talking points.

    It's stupid, and it's wrong, but Fox seems to taking full advantage of this.

  •  I wonder if a different medum (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    than tv, could be employed for the reprogramming. Perhaps music. If we have to listen to old jazz to get rid of fox, is that too much?

    A true craftsman will meticulously construct the apparatus of his own demise.

    by onionjim on Fri Feb 28, 2014 at 04:30:32 PM PST

  •  Condolences for your loss snow1985man. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    My father was a staunch FDR Democrat. He saw what progressive rebuilding could do for the common man and the country at large.

    The TVA, rural electrification, the alphabet soup depression projects, mobilization during WW2 and federal farm price support and even welfare, (and many others) were programs he thought were worthy and deserving of support.

    One of his many pithy opinions was thus: Rich people vote Republican, working people vote Democratic.

    I still love my dad, although he has been gone for over 20 years now, and we should all still strive for those goals as a society and as a country.

    If 20 years isn't a problem for me with my father, we should have no disrespect, as a country, for the advice given over 200 years ago in the founding fathers advice re the constitution.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    emphasis mine. Let's have some Constitutional law for a change!
  •  My parents are divorced (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SilentBrook, thanatokephaloides

    and are both in their 70s.  My father has always been a quiet, conservative minded man but has never spoken about how he votes.  Since 2008 he enjoys being the lone Obama supporter at his weekly coffee klatches with the guys in a very right wing, small Midwestern town.  I think he's a Democrat but he tells me to mind my own business (with a wink).

    My mother was a very liberal minded woman back in the 70s, a strong supporter of birth control, loved making her own money and believed women should have a voice at any table.  Sadly, she spends way too much time now watching and quoting Fox News.  I know she's a Republican but I hold out hope that her inner liberal will surge again for the right issue.

  •  It's like a negative feedback loop (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    It's strange because positive people are admired (e.g., the 110-year-old Holocaust survivor who died recently), but so many viewers see only the negative in the world, or see only negative in everything, and as so many have pointed, are keeping their own stress hormones elevated and affecting their own health. The other day someone said the world is a more dangerous place now than in 1939/40. Am still trying to wrap my head around that.

  •  Faux Nuze Mantra (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    Now Faux Nuze does not use its mantra "We decide, you report"  err  I think it was the otherway way around but they really meant to say that their minions would swallow anything Faux Nuze wish shove down their throats.

  •  Me?!? A Vandal?!? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    Time to cut the cable. . .

  •  Hmm (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    It is my belief anyone over the age of 65 that supports Republiclowns should do us all a favor and drop dead. It is the Republiclowns that continue to errode Social Security, and Medicare. And yet, the very people that rely on it are the idiots that support Republiclowns. So, for all you pea brains, when the Republiclowns come for your benefits don't complain. Pick up your Second Ammendment gun and shoot yourself in the head. Because you brought it on yourself. Unfortunately, the rest of us will have to suffer because of your racist, selfish stupidity.

  •  The Brainwashing Of My Dad. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides, BeninSC

    The Brainwashing Of My Dad is the title of a film on this subject that should be out soon. It was funded through Kickstarter. I made a small contribution.

  •  Fast talk (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides, BeninSC

    The problem may be that we septuagenarians often can't absorb the rapid-fire talk of Rachel & Chris & Chris, et al .... love their message, but can't easily comprend the rap-speed speech.  Hate the message at Fox, but we can hear and understand it when they talk... not so with the machine-gun brainiacs.   So that's a problem. There should be some progressive anchors that copy Fox's more normal speech rhythm (NOT the content.) We elders listen slower, but we vote... alot... so talk to us, not past us.

  •  I lost my sister and nephew over Fox News (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    My (now ex) bro-in-law was a Rush fan since he started in radio...but early on, my sister would just roll her eyes at him when he'd spout Limbaugh stuff at family gatherings.  She learned that her husband had been serially cheating on her for 15 years, and finally (after many "chances") did leave him.

    He won, now aged 44, still lives at home with my sister (age 70).  Both are FAUX News victims (sister is a huge O'Reilly fan, nephew is a fan of all of them).  Both are Limbaugh fans and when I remind my sister and nephew they used to laugh at him, they tell me "*** was a cheat and jerk, but he was very smart and knew Rush was, too."  ARRRRGGGHHHH.

    Much more to my story, but suffice to say, we do not even speak these days.  At all.

  •  Falling for the Siren Song of Faux et al... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    thanatokephaloides

    ...can be devastating for someone who has to watch it happen to a loved one. I believe that there are many political forces combating these evil and insidious idiots however. One is Jon Stewart whose viewership far surpasses that of whoever is first at Faux. I do not know who that is because I refuse to watch any of them or pay attention to their phony statistics. The most important thing is to keep up the good fight against ignorance, superstition, bigotry and hatred and never relent. EVER!!  

  •  Fox Indoctrinated My Mother (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    My 90 year old mother has been completely duped by Fox News but neither my brother nor I will allow Fox News to be watched in either of our homes. She accuses us of trying to "brainwash" her without realizing that Fox has done the same to her.

  •  Most of the older generation... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    are propagandized idiots. Marijuana is the drug of enlightenment and alcohol is the drug of making stupid people even more stupid. Most of those like Bill O'Reilly are too much of a coward to even try Marijuana. But if they actually did smoke some weed, they'd immediately stop being the fascist hate pigs that they are and realize that they were lied to all their lives and are doing nothing but spreading the lies to anyone that is gullible enough to listen to Fox Spews.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "ZiggyboyBullet.com." You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Sat Mar 01, 2014 at 04:50:52 PM PST

  •  Cognitive Relativism (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    Contrary to popular belief, Conservatives are indeed entitled to their own facts.

    Understanding the totality and implications of philosophical arguments eludes me, much as it does for those with much greater minds than my own. Therefore, I won't pretend to present all the arguments and counter-arguments to what I am about to say. However, the Republican Benghazi position and most similar political arguments are seemingly, at their core, mostly about cognitive relativism versus philosophical realism.

    Realists tend to believe in the existence and knowability of an objective reality independent of subjective perceptions and beliefs. It is an extension of the subjective mind into the physical world. For the realist, truth is objective and provable with observation and experimentation, while the subjective is exclusively construed by the individual mind and simply represents value judgments.

    Furthermore, the realist understands that what they believe now is only an approximation of objective reality; and that every new observation and experiment brings them closer to understanding that objective reality. This methodology is most often refered to as science. We can only confirm or deny something based upon this methodology. Beyond subjective opinion and faith, the scientific method is the only truth servicing tool we possess.

    Contrarily, relativism presents that truth is always relative to a particular standpoint or individual, and no one standpoint has greater or lesser value than another. Therefore, It contends the existence of multiple truths; perhaps even as many truths as there are subjective minds. In other words, relativists tend to believe they construct their own reality. As a result, they tend to value tradition and subjective faith over emperical experimental/observational evidence, datum, and science.

    When a relativist discovers what is true for them, they seem to be satisfied and tend to look no further. Therefore, observational and experimental evidence become irrelevant, and exposure to it will almost always be ineffective in changing their view. As a result, relativists/conservatives do not tend to easily learn, grow, develop or change; rather, they tend to become stuck in the subjective reality of their own creation.

    Relativists are able to avoid cognitive dissonance by exclusively seeking truth that is consistent with their other established beliefs. Therefore, truth is only relative to their subjective established belief system and they naturally tend to value ideological validation over the pursuit of the objective.

    Moreover, for the relativist, knowledge and truth are mostly social constructs. They are almost exclusively determined by culture and politics and primarily serve the interests of the existing power structures. Therefore, the relativist tends to be intellectually passive and to value faith over reason. Their views seem to be shaped by the subjective and self-serving rather than the rational; and their truth tends to be closely associated with value based interests such as wealth and status. Relativism is subjectively self-serving. It tends to validate oneself and protect one's ego.

    Those that describe themselves as Liberals seem to tend to sit on the side of realism; while those that consider themselves Conservative seem to trend toward relativist thinking. In Ayn Rand’s The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand contends rational self-interest is the greatest moral standard and selflessness is the worst immorality. Although we need to be careful as to avoid misconstruing Rand's Moral Objectivism as it relates to her conceptionalization of rational self-interest with Philosophical Objectivism that holds that facts exist regardless of whether a conscious being is there to know them; it is easy to understand why the conservative minded relativists are so attracted to her ideology.

  •  I have voted straight Democrat since I first did (0+ / 0-)

    in the early 90's.  I get what is being said here, but the left, including me, is being bombarded by the same nonsense on a continual basis.  Don't the rest of you get 20 emails a day saying "can you believe what so and so just said?"  Granted, people on the left aren't grandstanding as much, putting out outrageous, hateful statements, but we are certainly being manipulated into being against conservatives, against people who watch Faux News, etc.

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      the emails and petitions are getting out of control. Everyone wants you to chip in $3! Why, when I have paid my taxes for 30 years, do I have to pay for my democracy to work?!? I know the obvious answer, but instead I made my donation to the Daily Kos!

  •  Yathink it's sad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    how about a dearly beloved and loving husband of 37 years, deeply spiritual, generous, caring -- and I'm losing him to Fox in all the ways described by previous comments here.  I spend a lot of time in my separate bedroom with the door closed.  He objects to my membership in KOS so I get on it when I'm alone, and I've surrendered the TV completely.  Occasionally I have the chance to watch Al Jazeera, PBS and BBC, but Kos is my main link.  Thank you!

  •  elder abuse.... (0+ / 0-)

    ... as others have posted, this is no doubt due to 1. affects of aging 2. exacerbated by 'motor driving' the consciousness with constant TV watching. The scenario of having Faux 'news' hate propaganda on constantly is very disturbing ... turn off his TV ... take him to the park ... or Disneyland ... ANYWHERE ...

  •  Does anyone realize the Salon piece (0+ / 0-)

    is almost identical to another piece that was published in AlterNet not that long ago? Even the title of the piece was very similar. I wish I could locate it.

    Never mind, you can find it here. The author is Jen Senko, the title is 'How Talk Radio and Fox News Brainwashed My Dad.'

    I could joke that this stuff must be contagious, but I don't really find it all that funny. How is it that some people see right through the BS, and others find it sweeter than candy? My theory is that it tells them what they want to hear, and the basis for wanting to hear the junk being peddled by the demagogues is derived from fear and insecurity.

  •  We are the Fox (0+ / 0-)

    We are the FOX
    Put down the remote and surrender your brain.
    We will add your distinctive knowledge, skills, and abilities to our own.
    Your personality will adapt to service us.
    Resistance is futile.

    •  ...only true for those who have lost any... (0+ / 0-)

      ...capacity to think already... ;) ...

      Welcome from the DK Partners & Mentors Team. If you have any questions about how to participate here, you can learn more at the Knowledge Base or from the New Diarists Resources Diaries. Diaries labeled "Open Thread" are also great places to ask. We look forward to your contributions.

      Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences. -7.38; -3.44

      by paradise50 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 12:33:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  More specifically: (0+ / 0-)

      Adding your knowledge etc to the group is accommodation. In other words, the group is what changes in response to new info. Changing you to fit into the group is assimilation. The BORG are much better than the FOX. The BORG both accommodate and assimilate, while the FOX never accommodate, they only assimilate people.

      Neuro Linguistic Programing. Psychosemantics, Conversational hypnosis......    

  •  *** (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    Around August or September of 2012 some seniors held a protest in my town. They were lined up on both sides of a bridge on US 1 (in Martin County, FL) holding up signs demanding that Obama keep his hands off of their Medicare...right alongside signs for Romney/Ryan.

    Ryan...the guy who wants to privatize Medicare.

    Oh the irony!

  •  How I lost a CLOSE FRIEND to Fox News... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrisculpepper

    Once upon a time, I knew a woman who was a co-worker, as well as a close personal friend. I could accept our many differences. I had an upper-middle-class suburban upbringing, I'm a Roman Catholic, I'm tolerant toward other people and their viewpoints, I'm a left-leaning moderate in my political beliefs, and I have a good education. My friend, on the other hand, was raised in a dirt-poor, rural area, she's a member of some crazy holy-roller church, she's completely prejudiced and intolerant of others, she's a far-right-wing nut job, and she's poorly-educated. All that being said, despite our many differences, she and I became good friends.

    However, back in 2008 when President Obama was campaigning for the presidency, our differences became glaringly obvious, and thus our friendship quickly went south and was irreparably damaged. She made constant use of the N-word, which I found extremely bigoted and racist. Even after she realized that I was offended by the N-word, her idea of revising her language to make it more acceptable was to use words like "niggras" and "colored people." Her uber-conservative politics were unbending, and no amount of reasoning and facts could convince her to compromise her beliefs or alter her viewpoints.

    In the end, I had to sever our friendship, because she'd swallowed the political rhetoric of Bill O'Reilly, Mike Huckabee, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and other conservative talking heads hook, line and sinker. Our conversations became so contentiously political and religious in nature, and I had become so angry, disappointed and frustrated with her behavior, I began to completely avoid broaching these subjects with her. The absolute WORST part of her brainwashing by right-wing pundits was that she constantly spouted the misinformation and outright lies she'd heard on uber-conservative TV and radio outlets. At the core of my former friend's radical change in her beliefs were the sheer hatred and overt racism she felt toward Barack Obama. His candidacy and eventual victory in the 2008 presidential election proved to be her mental undoing, and subsequently, all sanity flew out the window.

    I'm not saying all Fox News viewers are stupid. However, they ARE rigid and close-minded in their way of thinking, refusing to listen to reason, and can quote chapter and verse of what they see and hear on Fox News. I've generally found that most of these folks are sheeple who parrot the conservative philosophy. If confronted with facts or opinions different from their own, they can only repeat the Tea Party Republican dogma that's been etched upon their pea-brains. In the end, I had to kick my close friend to the curb, because there's NO ARGUING with ignorance.

    •  NO ARGUING with ignorance. (0+ / 0-)

      Your not arguing with ignorance as we all Ignorant when we were kids but we learned and even as an adults were still ignorant on many things in fact the only limits we have is our self's such as physical trait for watch repair is slender fingers as it very delicate work and on the other side black smiting which requires good strength so do not be disappointed if you never get good in a skill

      However you do argue with stupidity thought as there totally imposable  to educate

  •  Divided (0+ / 0-)

    I can commiserate with this. The same is present in my family. My parents are separated and are low income American's. Yet they can condemn and criticize the President and Democrats without giving any thought to where the programs that help them on a daily basis come from or where they would be without them. Its very hard to stay connected with them or to be neutral when they subscribe to the right wing cult mentality coming from the lying bias media piped into their homes on a daily basis by the  ultra-conservatives. I know if they were younger and healthy they would not be taken in by this propaganda but at the end of their lives its a shame that the lying right can cause contention in our simple lives.  It should not be legal to print lies nor is it ethical to prey on the elderly.

  •  But there's more ... far more (0+ / 0-)

    From what I have been able to observe and discern, those who fit the pattern(s) in the article are also the most likely to do the exact opposite of what the claim to stand for and represent. They continuously tout less government and individual liberties, yet the seek to assert their will and wishes on others ... even when the others represent the overwhelming majority.

    C o n c l u s I o n ... all that the so called Republicans need do to maintain their "base" is simply CLAIM to be patriotic - family values - morals - religious - rights - freedoms - protect the Constitution, etc ... and the faithful will follow. Even when they never really live up to those exhaulted hypocrisies.

  •  It's not just the elderly (0+ / 0-)

    It's happening to people under 60, too. I think the single largest connection among Fox viewers is fear: fear of the unknown, fear of all they don't understand, fear of their worldview being shaken by facts they never took into consideration. Fear of realities becoming everyday that used to be swept quietly under the rug.

    Fox feeds into that, then in turn feed on it. It's an ugly circle, like a snake eating its own tail.

  •  Public Fox (0+ / 0-)

     I complained to the manager of a Mariott and got the channel changed, then I contacted corporate.  I ask a lot of unanswerable questions.  "Do you value your black or liberal or educated guest?"  "How do you think it makes your guest feel that are put in a position to be subjected to Fox propaganda just to eat the continental breakfast they paid for along with their room?"
    The poor customer service representative.......
    I hope it does not occur to them they could restrict Rachel, Bill Mahur for Fox News only in the rooms.

    I believe in separation of corporation and State.

    by tipring on Sun Mar 02, 2014 at 08:44:49 AM PST

  •  Don't understand (0+ / 0-)

    I am having difficulty understanding the rationalization used by people that are on and need medicare and Social Security to then support the Republican Party. Then the Democrats need to be screaming and yelling at the top of a mountain if that is what it takes.

  •  Not a father but (0+ / 0-)

    I have lost many friends to Rush L. and Fox News.  Some of them caught me completely by surprise since their lifestyle is anathema to the Fox line of thinking.  They all of a sudden felt like the victim of the left, minorities, atheist and the other.  I'm baffled by this transformation.  

  •  Cult? (0+ / 0-)

    Couldn't this whole cult/father point/proof be used to describe people and Obama?

  •  Label for your conservative father (0+ / 0-)

    Idiot

  •  I lost my brother to Fox News..... (0+ / 0-)

    When I get off this site, I have to answer at least three nasty Emails from him.  The fact that we still love each other even though we are polar opposites politically gives me hope that in the end, we will still love each other out there.

  •  Well, I'm the father. The old white dude. And ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CaffeineInduced

    I'm not going anywhere. My kids aren't gonna lose me. I dare to have some sense.

    All is not lost and regardless of age some people are just damn stupid.  I don't feel pity so much as anger. I no longer have patience for the willfully ignorant.

  •  I guess I'm lucky (0+ / 0-)

    My father was always ultra conservative. But now he watches Real Time with Bill Maher. We watch it together every Monday (ondemand). He still is very conservative and says he's not decended from apes but at least he doesn't watch the evil Faux News.

  •  I saw the worst minds of my generation (0+ / 0-)

    “I saw the worst minds of my generation destroyed by madness, stark hysterical misled, dragging themselves through the right-wing channels at dusk looking for an angry fix, devilheaded oldsters burning for the ancient furious connection to the stormy dynamo in the machinery of the right.”

    La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

    by dconrad on Mon Mar 03, 2014 at 03:29:45 PM PST

  •  The same thing happened to my husband (0+ / 0-)

    and my in-laws.  My husband calls me a dumb-o-crat. My father-in-law sends me racist emails (which he probably doesn't see as racist). My poor mother-in-law lives in actual fear of President Obama and Muslims. Now, these are very devoted Christian people that I never had a problem with! I don't argue with my in-laws, but I do argue with my hubby because I am trying to unbrainwash him. He watches Fox and O'Reilly daily. During one such argument he told me that our difference in viewpoints could be grounds for divorce, which is ridiculous because otherwise we get along fabulously. I tell him that he has changed, not me, and to stop watching that channel, but he insists that they are reporting the truth, and that the public radio and public television news that I am a fan of are just liberal b.s., and that I am a brainwashed liberal. I remind him that the talking heads on Fox are paid to say what they are saying, do you notice that all they talk about is the President, or they make every story come around to him and his failings, or worse, his "evil agenda", and he answers "the liberal media that you listen to get paid to say what they say".

    In our younger days (we are 50-somethings) we were freewheelin', apolitical rock n rollers that lived by the ideas in the music we so much loved. Now he is angry on a daily basis and spews racism and hate that makes me cringe. I will patiently keep offering him the facts and hope that he changes. Perhaps we should all get together and sue Fox news for messing with our families!

    When I was a teen we were assigned the book 1984 to read in school. I must have read it 10 times over and have never forgotten it. I have encouraged everyone I know to read that book, including our 2 children (they haven't yet, so I keep nagging them). If you can control the media you can control the masses.

  •  While I found this interesting, and I've seen (0+ / 0-)

    this happen to people I know, the juxtaposition of "cult mentality" to "lost to Fox" would be more powerful if they corresponded a bit more closely - and I know it wouldn't be hard to find examples of nearly exact matches. This just wasn't edited well.

  •  Has anyone done a study on the adverse (0+ / 0-)

    health effects of constant exposure to Right Wing media?

    I would imagine that stress-related ailments like ulcers, hypertension, etc. would be very evident amongst those who are constantly shouted at and told they should be either angry or afraid.

    •  I am not aware of such a study. (0+ / 0-)

      However, the situation that you describe would certainly be a convenient arrangement between Right Wing media and their pharmaceutical corporate sponsors:  Create the illness and/or convince the suggestible elderly viewers that they suffer from said illness, and drive them right into the waiting arms of the pill pushers.

  •  Me Too. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PoliticalAnimal, metalnun

    I lost my husband to Fox years ago.  One day he was watching Fox.  When I walked into the room and heard what they were saying I looked him in the eye and told him that was a lie.  He began to argue but every point he made I rebutted with the truth.  It took a while, but he finally began watching other news shows and realized for himself that they were lying and made a complete turnaround.  I had to consistently point out what they were saying was wrong and pointed out to him how things were actually going in our country.  He finally began to see it for himself.  It is possible to wean someone off Fox, but it takes work and time.

  •  i wish there was news i fox news (0+ / 0-)

    But there as much  news on fox as there is on Jerry Springer. whats on fox news is a lot of tea party propaganda and spin and no real facts.

  •  Insane Do To Fox (0+ / 0-)

    My retired husband watches Fox so he can complain all day on what idiots they are.  I went back to work, just to get away from the barrage of crap.  If I wanted to hear the hate and  lies they spew, I would watch it myself !!!  SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP !!!   Is there a 'Hate Fox Anonymous ?

  •  Deprogramming? (0+ / 0-)

    I read that last sentence as irony, confident in that reading because of the thoughtfulness of the whole piece.

    For those who missed the irony (very few in this venue, I figure), deprogramming is an unconscionable violation in the view of many who think and feel as I do.

    When I last considered the cult-exit problem I came up with the position that a soft two-front approach is acceptable: time away from direct cult influence (if possible--and physical deafness helps here against broadcast cultism) and death from old age, that ingenious feature of "intelligent design" we all share, of whatever species (except maybe Rotifera), to solve the pesky problem of an individual gone awry. Let's "thank God" for death. And evolution.

    Hey, irony-wink-wink on "design", please ('case you missed the "__"), and "God", too. I buy into evolution unreservedly. I use the word "creatures" conscious of the unavoidable conservatism of language, as in "Good-bye", shortened from "God be wi' ye.".

  •  Lost a Friend and Contractor due to Fox News (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PoliticalAnimal, metalnun

    I met a contractor a few years ago who worked on several houses for me and we became good friends.  Over the past 4 years I saw him become more and more angry - always complaining about Obama, liberals and environmentalists.  It became impossible to discuss anything without the conversation becoming a one-sided diatribe against the evil demon dictator, Obama, and the environmental communists trying to take over our country.  My husband wrote some letters to the local newspaper that were critical of the tea party, and suddenly my friend can't work for us anymore or even answer the phone or return emails when I try to contact him.  The ability of FOX news to turn nice, normal people into paranoid, angry, anti-science and anti-government fringe who shun anyone with a different world view is sad and tragic.  Rupert Murdoch is almost single-handedly keeping a large segment of the population ignorant and misinformed, and leading us down a very dangerous path.

    •  Okay, I'm bragging.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PoliticalAnimal, metalnun

      I have kids in their forties and they don't have to put up with a Fox Father and Mother.

      It really is a bummer that the cultists who Fox can never be persuaded with facts, but that's the nature of cults. Maybe Thanksgiving should become Intervention Day when kids can tie up those Foxheads and convince them that liberals are sweet caring people who really do have a grasp of reality. Maybe.

      •  nope. tried that. (0+ / 0-)

        Utterly failed.  Turned into Thanksgivingeddon.  Now at the holidays and other family get-togethers we can only discuss the weather (which of course is NOT warming!), our pets and our gardening.

  •  The GRIM REAPER IS the only answer We have to w... (0+ / 0-)

    The GRIM REAPER IS the only answer

    We have to wait for AILES AND MURDOCH to die and then perhaps the family will lose interest in politics. The children don't seem to be as interested in getting involved in American politics . But obviously we then have to rid ourselves of Rush and BILL O too; have you noticed they both are looking old, fat and bald .

    Btw none of my many nieces or nephews know who Rush , Bill O or

    Charles L or Hannity are and are not interested in their views either

    So there is hope !!!!

  •  Why? (0+ / 0-)

    As a 74 year old who never married or had children, I have to ask Why? Why are so many elderly susceptible to paranoid cult thinking?

    Is it loneliness? Is it that under it all they feel abandoned by their children, and thus resentful and angry and aneed focus for that resentment band anger AND a new family. Fox News is very good at creating a folksy, family atmosphere as well a cult atmosphere for their devotees.

    Is it fear of decline and death, with paranoid polictics as an effective distraction from the reality of death?

    Is it a complete lack of spiritual resources, resources quite often better developed through good iiterature and art rather than religion?

    Is it that a religious upbringing create a  need for doctrine, for simple truths that cannot be denied even in the face of contradictory facts?

    We ned to get serious about what is going on with TV addicted elderly? I think the best discipline to study the elderly would be applied anthropologists rather than sociologists or psychologists. What makes the elderly join certain tribes and how do those tribes form and behave? What symbols and rites create a new and satisfying "family" for so many elderly?

  •  ANOTHER LOST (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    metalnun, Elizabetta

    Sometime ago, my late cousin Paula, 'found me' after decades of non-communication. It was a great 'reunion'even though she did turn out to be a Republican.

    But it set off a 'discovery' by other members of our little school class in Iowa Park, Texas. So many I hadn't heard of or thought of in so long (some of course that I'd just as soon NOT found me). But as time passed, and this was on Facebook, I began to notice a 'trend'. With a few exceptions, most of them were die-hard Republicans. You know I hadn't really noticed this when we were growing up. And then as Obama began his first campaign, the postings really got ugly. And to my horror, they all seemed to glean their knowledge and Hatred from Fox News.

    But one of the 'die-hards' and I finally locked horns, and bascially because he also got his 'FIX' also from Fox. To my total amazement and shock he let loose with a 'religious tirade' and 'hellfire and damnation' rant on the future of my soul, telling me that I would probably unfriend him, but he had to say what he did.

    As I told him,  "you can't unfriend someone when there was NEVER a friendship in the first place. And with that, I not only unfriended him and his wife, but nearly all of the 'list on Facebook'.

    I still have NO regrets.

    And my cousin, Paula? She was neither judgmental (I'm gay and have a husband of nearly thirty years), nor harsh in any way. We kept up our  reconnect until and very sadly, she 'passed' from cancer several years ago.

    I Still Miss You, Paula.

  •  Deprogram? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Elizabetta

    I would ask how one or many could even begin to unravel the conundrum as to how and why an individual would abandon previously held beliefs or even logic?  What was the mental, emotional landscape of the individual to allow such dramatic changes. I have always been an outlier, not because I am wondrously successful, powerful and definitely not socially acceptable but because I have always questioned. Even as a Catholic child that attended Catholic schools all of my life I constantly questioned the nuns and priests about specific doctrines that collided with my acceptance of God; like new born babies being consigned to limbo/purgatory because they died unbaptized. I suspect that I am not a candidate for any cult or even any religion or political belief that requires unquestioning adherence.  

  •  My Parents (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    metalnun, Anne056, Elizabetta

    Much the same thing is going on with my parents.  

    It started with my mom, during the Clinton administration and then she wasn't content to have her own world turned into Paranoia Central, she turned my father as well.  I ask them where they are getting these crazy a$$ (not the words I used with them)  ideas, are they watching Fox News or listening to Rush and they deny it vehemently even though they are quoting both nearly word for word.  

    It makes me furious to see these people who were once quite open minded, turn into the most paranoid, hate filled, nearly fascist automatons.  I have wracked my brain trying to figure out how this happened and the only thing that I can think of is the loss of neutrality in the news.  Remember the days when if the television news showed an opinion on one side of an argument/issue, they had to invite commentary from the opposite position to comment on the same issue.  

    The other contributing factor is the way that their generation was raised seeing newspapers and the early television news as ivory towers of honesty and  respectability.  With men like Walter Cronkite Roger Mudd, Barbara Waters, Carl Bernstein, Tom Brokaw, CHet Huntley, David Brinkley it's no wonder that they have such undying faith in what they heard and still hear on the evening news.

  •  One way I hope is effective (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    How to begin the de-programming? Abolish the program! Now, how do we make Faux News, Rush Job, and InSanity ancient history as fast as possible?

  •  fox noise (0+ / 0-)

    Don't forget to mention the yummy women on fox news.
    Those old farts aren't THAT old.

  •  This is a white people thing! Sorry! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    These have to be people who were NEVER comfortable having that half black man and his black wife and children living in the WHITE House.  So ANYTHING that disparages Barack Obama, ANYTHING that is said that supports their bigotry and hatred for a man that only wants to serve his country is okay.  They probably do not even believe most of what Fox airs but it helps them feel better about themselves as there are others that hate that Black man as much as they do.  Same folk that cannot wait until Bubba Bill Clinton is once again in the White House.    

  •  Unfortunately, we have friends who are also und... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056, Elizabetta

    Unfortunately, we have friends who are also under the influence of the Fox Cult. Raised as working/middle class they think that everything they achieved in life was their own doing.

    When pointing out that having parents that gave enough of a crap to refuse to support you if you don't attend college is more of a step up than the majority of the working classes, we are met with incredulity.

    We all stand on the shoulders of those who came before, but they don't see it that way.

    What we find most disturbing is that our Fox Friend works for a non profit, but lacks empathy for anyone unless they are mentally disabled (thus unable to be productive members of society) or a dog because they aren't personally responsible for their futures.

    There is a sociopathic tendency among the right that I find the most disturbing. Oh, and they are armed and offended that we won't stay at their cabin with unlocked and loaded guns. Paranoia created by Murdoch and his evil empire!

  •  Losing your father to Fox (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    metalnun, Anne056

    You never lost your father to Fox. Anyone - no matter what age - with a critical thinker’s mentality and a confidence instilled by a lifetime (no matter how long) of skepticism, questioning and epistemology won’t ever go over to Fox or any news source anything like it. No, you lost your father over a period of time until you realized your dad didn’t want to think for himself anymore. Sort of like any cult member.

    This has happened to members of my family over the years - I wondered why they capitulated to non-thinking status. But it was so gradual I didn’t see it coming until a long gap in visits proved it out. Nothing I could do but bury their memory.

  •  Father Lost to Fox (0+ / 0-)

    Jolly 69-year-old started watching Fox News. Developed uncontrollable rage, visibly heightened in the evenings during and after Hannity, & O'Reilly. Had multiple strokes. Died at 70.

  •  I also lost my father to Faux News. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    A highly intelligent man with a Master's degree in Sociology, retired Air Force Chief of Maintenance who for fun built actual functioning aircraft (RV-6) from scratch and flew them - Dad is now completely brainwashed by Faux.  He was always a Reagan-type Republican but was previously moderate on most issues (more libertarian in terms of people being allowed to live their lives as they see fit, etc.) and was low-key in his religion, a church-goer but not particularly obsessive or fundie.  Now Faux blares on the t.v. at his house all day long and he believes everything they say, has become super-religious and urged his mainstream Presbyterian church to protest Obamacare because of the (so-called "religious freedom") contraceptive issue and was furious when the pastor said they were considering performing gay weddings.  Obama is a Muslim/Communist who hates America, the teachers and firefighters and other labor unions caused the economic crash, global warming is a hoax, people's tap water catching on fire is NOT from fracking, gays are destroying the sanctity of marriage, etc., etc.  It's gotten to the point in the last few years that I can't really have any kind of meaningful conversation with him about any real-world events or issues.  Very sad.

  •  FOX News would be Joseph's Göbbels favored news... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    FOX News would be Joseph's Göbbels favored news media.

    Klaus Gruner

  •  Dads & fox (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    My dad grew up during the depression and was assisted by gov't assistance (welfare) . Many of their friends and family took part in the wpa or ccc. He served in WWII, and went to college on the gi  Bill. Soon after , he was part of actors equity, the actors union. He later became a public school teacher in ny, and a union member. He now is assisted by the va, Medicare and social security. Most of his neighbors survive solely on social security. He lives on his teacher pension.  Whether it is because he lives in rural Arizona , or his relatives in western Pennsylvania who email the crazy stuff, he has become a non thinking, believe in every unproven accusation in spite of obvious evidence, person. My dad at one time wrote for the sat and ap exams and was an English teacher who hated students who didn't prove their thesis. I feel your pain. We too , never saw any of this growing up. Only after Fox News was created did this happen.

  •  Crack News. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

  •  Fox News... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    should be banned from the media. They are the equivalent of a Nazi brainwash center. Murdoch, the owner of Fox Snooze is one of the biggest creeps this side of the Atlantic Ocean.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "ZiggyboyBullet.com." You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Sun May 17, 2015 at 09:11:05 AM PDT

  •  FOX News Junkies are never happy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anne056

    Even if you just met someone, you can tell if they're a FOX News junkie.  They're always angry about something, and no matter what the topic is, it's always bad and it's always Obamas fault.  

  •  Old people love Fox because... (0+ / 0-)

    they both resent the same people:blacks, independent women, young, sexually active people, all of whom are capable of doing the types of things that the old folks no longer can, and they're BITTER about it. So, they spend all day directing hate at those who can, and applaud those who make the lives of those who can miserable.

  •  My 91 Year Old Mother (0+ / 0-)

    insists that I allow her to watch Fox News when she is visiting me. I refuse to do such a thing and I really don't give a damn what she thinks about it.

    "It is the responsibility and duty of everyone to help the deserving underprivileged and less fortunate among us."

    by sichuan on Mon May 18, 2015 at 06:38:22 PM PDT

  •  A high percentage of the elderly are ill due to (0+ / 0-)

    hydrocephaly, which is a very gradual build-up of cerebro-spinal fluid pressure over time, causing personality change and brain damage.  If caught quick enough, the brain damage can be mitigated and the elderly person can go back to being the person they once were, but long-term pressure means permanent brain damage.  There are two tests: one is to observe the elderly person walking: if they do that little tiny step-walk that Tim Conway used to use when he was playing "the Old Man", they are a candidate for a spinal tap, which is the test that can confirm hydrocephaly.

    Nobody knows what causes this build-up of pressure on the brain, but it seems to me the root of a lot of personality problems among our aging population.

    When my Fox-News-addicted mother had a shunt put in to alleviate the pressure, sadly she didn't go back to the wonderful, sweet, intelligent person she was for most of her life, but she did call me and tell me that she wasn't going to vote republican anymore.  She found most of the people on Fox News disturbing after her operation and only liked Huckabee (just as poisonous as the rest, but a nicer, softer package) and Shepherd Smith (again, a smiling, more friendly version of the usual braying Fox News idiots.)

  •  Fox News (0+ / 0-)

    I too lost my family to Fox News and that scurrilous carnie, Rush Limbaugh. My mother has forbidden us to discuss politics or the issues of the day. Why? Because, according to their dittohead mentality, I went to college and became a liberal. No, Mom, you raised me with a mix of progressive and conservative views and I took it from there.

    Yes, I am an unabashed liberal (though more centrist in my views) because I went to a conservative business college and learned how our government works, how our economy works, and how savvy marketing can be used to convince people to vote against their own best interests.

    The United States is a great nation and it's about time we lived up to that ideal. It isn't something the right wing can get behind because they have bought the con that the rich know what's best for us and have our best interests at heart, as sold to us by the right wing carnies and Murdoch's Fox News propaganda machine.  

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